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Post by bchevy on Apr 12, 2013 18:57:30 GMT -4
Care to try again? This is how I ended the other thread, and the opening post didn't pass. ok ENOUGH This thread is beyond repair, and beyond use. Want to start another Route 8 Sewer Thread? PLEASE DO and know that duplicate posts, attacks on members, antagonistic comments, and any other crap posts will disappear. YES Some posts on this thread are missing. Don't like it? Oh well. Play nice or go home. The choice is yours. No this isn't directed at any one or 2 or 3 posters. Want this thread cleaned up and reopened? Tell me that and I'll give it a try. The old thread is gone, This is the new one. Post your info. Stay on topic. and play nice. I know I can do it.
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Post by jackbquick on Apr 12, 2013 20:48:14 GMT -4
Does anyone know why the 4 Secretary heads of the Bay Cabinet was here to see the County Commissioners on Tuesday. I assume it is because they are serious about correcting the public health problem on SKI before everyone is put on a holding tank for $700 a month.
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Post by constructr on Apr 12, 2013 21:08:41 GMT -4
I sense a bit of Napoleon Complex........
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Post by jackbquick on Apr 12, 2013 22:07:02 GMT -4
Bchevy, The more I think about it, I think you should clean up whatever you think you need to and put the history of the previous back. This is too inportant of an issue to some just to delete the history. Some might even get out of line so the thread stops because they do not like the way it is going.
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chuck
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by chuck on Apr 13, 2013 15:48:17 GMT -4
^ agreed. Who are you to "censor" debate on a critical topic. While you're at it, please tell me who Mike the other Global Moderator is? I have too many adjectives to lay out on him right now for his classless insensitivity.
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Post by shorelovinit on Apr 14, 2013 18:24:26 GMT -4
Agree with those who feel the deletion of the thread was inappropriate and unprofessional. That is unless this entire forum and Kent Island Online is only for an anointed few who feel it's their view or no view and no one else has a right to opinion or stating facts. If that is the case, KIO and the boards are worthless and corrupt. I hope that's not the case, but it sure is looking that way. This is the way people lost their rights in Germany. Censorship. Now if there is name calling, that's one thing, but disagreements or different opinion aren't worthy of deletion.
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Post by shorelovinit on Apr 14, 2013 18:55:13 GMT -4
Kent Island Sewer Facts:
FACT: Cloverfields and Bay City residents were forced to connect to sewer. Lot owners were also forced to connect. Both homeowners and lot owners were allowed to combine lots for single sewer allocations. Homeowners in Cloverfields, like me, weren't thrilled with the sewer hookup fees, but homeowners' bills were significantly reduced by the benefits premium lot owners paid to hook up. If you ask anyone in Cloverfields or Bay City, they love the communities. And there are still lots that are not developed some 16 years later.
FACT: Sewer was planned for Southern Kent Island Communities and that strategy was part of the Comprehensive Plan and the Master Water and Sewer Plan about 10 years ago.
FACT: Sewer allocation was obtained for the southern county based on the homeowners and lot owners tying into the system and paying for the large amount of money expended to do this.
FACT: Former County Commissioners robbed the sewer repair fund to pay the ongoing bills for the unused sewer allocation. The sewer repair fund is now almost bankrupt and those of us paying for sewer in the county have been subsidizing the lack of action of bringing sewer to Southern Kent Island. Those of us paying for sewer throughout the county are paying for the anit-growth movement and our bills are going up because of this.
FACT: Southern Kent Island has failing septic systems. It's a FACT folks. Doesn't matter if your toilet flushes. That's not what makes it flush. There is a recognized health and environmental hazard going on.
FACT: Several homes are now being told they must have holding tanks installed.
FACT: The best solution for the failing systems and to comply with the Comprehensive Plan and Master Water and Sewer Plan that was out there for almost 10 years is to put in sewer as in Plan B.
FACT: The step system is a bad solution because it is not the best technologically. It still requires a holding tank for the solids that the homeowner is going to have to have pumped out, just not as frequently as if it was holding tank only.
FACT: The step system is more costly to the homeowner. The figures that are being passed around are not correct.
FACT: We didn't get state grants to help Cloverfields and neither did Bay City.
These are the facts folks. I'm tired of hearing people whine about maybe paying for sewer. They want state grants. They aren't coming. They never did. What makes those people more special than the others in the county. We all have had to pay for sewer. Most of the people commenting don't even live in the affected SKI communities. It's disingenuous when when people complain about new homes in those communities, when they bought in subdivisions and knew that they would one day have neighbors.
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Post by jackbquick on Apr 14, 2013 19:15:34 GMT -4
Shorelovinit, Great facts. Nice to have some support from someone who ownes a home not in the impacted communities. I hope I get another choice besides a holding tank. I did not mind arguing with people before the holding tank deal came to fruition but now I am so concerned about having to pay $700 a month on top of all my other bills that I am panicking. I hope others can understand and can come together those living in these communities.
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Post by uvrays on Jun 25, 2013 16:47:54 GMT -4
This is just my opinion, answering your facts:
FACT: Cloverfields and Bay City residents were forced to connect to sewer. Lot owners were also forced to connect. Both homeowners and lot owners were allowed to combine lots for single sewer allocations. Homeowners in Cloverfields, like me, weren't thrilled with the sewer hookup fees, but homeowners' bills were significantly reduced by the benefits premium lot owners paid to hook up. If you ask anyone in Cloverfields or Bay City, they love the communities. And there are still lots that are not developed some 16 years later.
Answer: Don’t know much about the sewer issue in those two communities. However, do you know how many lots were developed BECAUSE of the implementation of the sewer system? Part of the SKI issue is about the number of undeveloped lots that COULD be developed, causing consequences.
FACT: Sewer was planned for Southern Kent Island Communities and that strategy was part of the Comprehensive Plan and the Master Water and Sewer Plan about 10 years ago.
Answer: According to a conversation I had with a previous commissioner, said plan was never actually updated and approved.
FACT: Sewer allocation was obtained for the southern county based on the homeowners and lot owners tying into the system and paying for the large amount of money expended to do this.
Answer: I believe this is incorrect. My understanding is the County agreed to save a portion of the sewer treatment capacity for SKI when the County received money from the State to upgrade the Stevensville Treatment plant. The State upgrade money came from the “flush tax”.
FACT: Former County Commissioners robbed the sewer repair fund to pay the ongoing bills for the unused sewer allocation. The sewer repair fund is now almost bankrupt and those of us paying for sewer in the county have been subsidizing the lack of action of bringing sewer to Southern Kent Island. Those of us paying for sewer throughout the county are paying for the anit-growth movement and our bills are going up because of this.
Answer: I’ve never heard of the “sewer repair fund”. However, that being said, it MAY be true. You pay for what you use. I don’t see how you are subsidizing SKI when they don’t have sewer. As a matter of fact, even if I don't currently use the treatment plant, I helped pay for its upgrade.
FACT: Southern Kent Island has failing septic systems. It's a FACT folks. Doesn't matter if your toilet flushes. That's not what makes it flush. There is a recognized health and environmental hazard going on.
Answer: Yes, SKI has failing systems. However, the County has NEVER provided adequate detailed information. They typically speak in generalizations, and not specifics (We drilled holes and found problems). Additionally, the majority of the problems arise when there is not enough distance between wastewater effluent and rising groundwater (causing intrusion). While I agree it is a health and environmental hazard, there is not a single DOCUMENTED case of someone becoming sick due to septic issues.
FACT: Several homes are now being told they must have holding tanks installed.
Answer: I only know of one. However, you could be correct.
FACT: The best solution for the failing systems and to comply with the Comprehensive Plan and Master Water and Sewer Plan that was out there for almost 10 years is to put in sewer as in Plan B.
Answer: It’s been awhile since I’ve read the County’s plan. However, until the County decides on minimum lot sizes, then the only homes that are currently built should be allowed to connect. Allowing every deeded or plated lot to be built on is not a good idea until the County knows approximately how many homes will need service. Any increase in homes will impact roads, schools and 1st responders.
FACT: The step system is a bad solution because it is not the best technologically. It still requires a holding tank for the solids that the homeowner is going to have to have pumped out, just not as frequently as if it was holding tank only.
Answer: See next answer.
FACT: The step system is more costly to the homeowner. The figures that are being passed around are not correct.
Answer: I believe that my BAT system is a step system that was installed approximately 5 years ago. When I had it installed, I called the manufacturer and they stated their systems installed in warmer climates (South Carolina and Georgia) actually use the wastewater to irrigate farm fields, meaning clean water. My system does not need pumping if it is functioning properly. I was required, at installation, to have a service plan and I have my tanks inspected twice a year. Also, State flush tax money paid 10k for my new septic tank. Thanks Governor Ehrlich.
FACT: We didn't get state grants to help Cloverfields and neither did Bay City.
Answer: That is my understanding.
I don’t think that anyone is saying they are more special than anyone else. However, the County should at least look for grant money if it is available. Yes, I know in likelihood funding will not be available, but shouldn’t we at least look? It would be foolish not to.
I’m not concerned about new homes; I’m more concerned about the effect these new homes will have on our already crowded roads and near or at capacity schools.
Finally, one aspect that will be costly and affect quite a few homes will be road upgrades. If you live on an unimproved road, you will also have to pay to have the road improved to County standards. This will add a significant cost increase to the homeowner.
And like you, I believe in dealing with facts.
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Post by Mike on Jun 25, 2013 17:10:42 GMT -4
FACT: This thread is going to Politico
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Post by bchevy on Jun 26, 2013 21:53:33 GMT -4
Any liquids only treatment system isn't a fix at all. Anne Arundel County has them and they are a maintenance nightmare. AACO retained ownership and maint. of the tanks though so the homeowner doesn't pay for the repairs, they just have to put up with the headache of a system not working when it's broke. and it's broke a lot.
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Post by jackbquick on Jun 27, 2013 9:32:45 GMT -4
Any liquids only treatment system isn't a fix at all. Anne Arundel County has them and they are a maintenance nightmare. AACO retained ownership and maint. of the tanks though so the homeowner doesn't pay for the repairs, they just have to put up with the headache of a system not working when it's broke. and it's broke a lot. Bchevy, I have been doing a lot of research on this system and I agree 100%. After all this debate and turmoil, they are honestly thinking of going with an inferior system. Why would you pump #1 and leave #2. Who in their right mind wants to deal with septic tanks..
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Post by bchevy on Jun 27, 2013 18:00:31 GMT -4
Any liquids only treatment system isn't a fix at all. Anne Arundel County has them and they are a maintenance nightmare. AACO retained ownership and maint. of the tanks though so the homeowner doesn't pay for the repairs, they just have to put up with the headache of a system not working when it's broke. and it's broke a lot. Bchevy, I have been doing a lot of research on this system and I agree 100%. After all this debate and turmoil, they are honestly thinking of going with an inferior system. Why would you pump #1 and leave #2. Who in their right mind wants to deal with septic tanks.. It was on the short list of considerations for Bay City. I've worked on the AACO systems for 20 plus years. LOTS of headaches. Lots of maint. Pumps, Floats "baskets" Wires ran in the yards to the tanks, constantly getting hit by the HO, or contractors Horrible design and worse installations. and it only takes care of the liquids. The county pumps out the tanks on a 3 year schedule.
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Post by jackbquick on Jun 27, 2013 23:28:41 GMT -4
Bchevy,
Any chance you could say anything to Alan Quimby, Todd Mohn or Steve Arentz. I can't believe they might consider leaving us with a septic tank when there is alternative that is about the same price.
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Post by jackbquick on Jul 10, 2013 11:53:17 GMT -4
Bchevy, The design is out and they are stating they can go from a 2" line at KIE to a 16" line from the Kentmoor to the trestment plant without any pumping stations:O
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Post by bob66 on Jul 10, 2013 14:00:04 GMT -4
A 2" line looks like a typo. It would be much too small. The line coming out of the house is typically 4", 3" at a minimum. It could not be reduced because it would choke at the reducer. If "they" say they will use a pump, the lines will blow apart with that much pumping pressure putting solids through that small of a pipe.
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Post by markp on Jul 10, 2013 16:13:06 GMT -4
2" is probable if they're going with low pressure sewer with grinder pumps.
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Post by jackbquick on Jul 10, 2013 18:19:37 GMT -4
A 2" line looks like a typo. It would be much too small. The line coming out of the house is typically 4", 3" at a minimum. It could not be reduced because it would choke at the reducer. If "they" say they will use a pump, the lines will blow apart with that much pumping pressure putting solids through that small of a pipe. Bob, No typo. Starts as a 2" pipe at KIE and works its way up to a 16" line by the time it gets to Kentmoor. This system will only move the liquids. The solids will stay behind in a holding tank.
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Post by bob66 on Jul 10, 2013 23:05:25 GMT -4
I learn something new everyday. I'd be interested in the engineering behind that system, which IS eerily similar, in a more advanced way, to the way they do it in developing countries. In the Philippines for example, the gray water flows by gravity to a ditch in the street (yeah..) and the black water goes to a non-percolating pit at the rear of the property, emptied (BY HAND!!!) every six months or so.
I wonder if it is the same way with this system, where everything from the toilet goes to a holding tank and all other drains go to this 2" pipe? I guess that does keep the vast majority of the liquids out of the tank. I just wonder though, a 2 1/2 bath house with a kitchen and laundry room has 3 toilets and at least 8 drains. That has the potential for a lot of water at once for the 2" pipe. But smarter men than me have put the math into this, so hey, hope it works.
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Post by bluecrabber on Jul 11, 2013 8:45:18 GMT -4
Reminds me of my Great Grand Mother's famous saying: "You can't put 6 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag!"
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Post by jackbquick on Jul 11, 2013 10:11:37 GMT -4
Reminds me of my Great Grand Mother's famous saying: "You can't put 6 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag!" Great quote. Your grandmother was a wise person. I hope she would not mind if I use that one on a more regular basis.
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Post by lainey on Jul 15, 2013 12:38:05 GMT -4
Hmmm, maybe you should have thought of that before you bought a house on septic on a lot that cant hold water.
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Post by jackbquick on Jul 15, 2013 17:34:58 GMT -4
Hmmm, maybe you should have thought of that before you bought a house on septic on a lot that cant hold water. Lainey, You got me. I guess I should suffer forever for my mistake of buying a house with a septic field that can't hold water. I will never make that mistake again and I doubt I will ever get that chance anyway since I can't sell my house with a holding tank. Thanks for being so sympathetic.
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Post by lainey on Jul 29, 2013 13:48:24 GMT -4
Today its my sympathy, tomorrow it will be my tax dollars all because you made a bad decision. What else did you screw up that you need someone else to fix for you? I can fix your problem and limit growth on Kent Island too! Condemn all the homes who cant hold their own water. Eminent Domain the public health risk. Problem solved. I didn't have to run expensive sewer lines, I didn't have to expand route 8, I didn't have to build new schools for the sewer related growth. Im getting tired of you putting this on everyone else. You interject this issue in every topic on this board. You insult yourself more than I could ever dream up:: From above written by you, Who in their right mind wants to deal with septic tanks.. Evidently YOU DO! You bought it, now pump it or pay for a holding tank. Heck, you even think the quote about 6 pounds of crap in a 5 lb bag is funny, Hello, that is your house you are laughing about. But Im the bad guy for not giving you a shoulder to cry on? I don't think so.
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Post by jackbquick on Jul 29, 2013 18:47:58 GMT -4
Today its my sympathy, tomorrow it will be my tax dollars all because you made a bad decision. What else did you screw up that you need someone else to fix for you? I can fix your problem and limit growth on Kent Island too! Condemn all the homes who cant hold their own water. Eminent Domain the public health risk. Problem solved. I didn't have to run expensive sewer lines, I didn't have to expanpd route 8, I didn't have to build new schools for the sewer related growth. Im getting tired of you putting this on everyone else. You interject this issue in every topic on this board. You insult yourself more than I could ever dream up:: From above written by you, Who in their right mind wants to deal with septic tanks.. Evidently YOU DO! You bought it, now pump it or pay for a holding tank. Heck, you even think the quote about 6 pounds of crap in a 5 lb bag is funny, Hello, that is your house you are laughing about. But Im the bad guy for not giving you a shoulder to cry on? I don't think so. Lainey, I agree with you 100%. My bet is it will turn out exactly as you describe. Not! Keep ranting!
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