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Post by bchevy on Apr 28, 2014 19:48:55 GMT -4
We already pay for the parks. The parks are NOT being policed. The parks are NOT being maintained. Not so very long ago Terrapin Park was nice. Educational placards throughout with information on plants and animals. Today they are all but gone, and the ones that remain are in horrible condition. I frequent the park pretty often. I have NEVER seen the Sheriff's Department or any County personnel roll through. I'm kind of surprised that no one has been jumped there yet to be honest. Trash is everywhere, and Kristan's group is to be commended. But Kristan and her group SHOULDN'T need to do what they do. That's why we pay taxes. Paying an additional tax, which is unenforceable, isn't going to change ANYTHING. Decent parks, just like decent schools and roads and all of the infrastructure that is maintained by local government is essential to keep our county a good place to live. Paying for all of this, no matter if you personally use it or not, does benefit you in the long run. I have no problem paying taxes. None at all. It's the right thing to do and the patriotic thing to do in order to maintain and improve what we have. I don't however like paying taxes TWICE when it's pretty unlikely that those funds will be used to improve the parks that we're already paying for. And BTW, when I visit Terrapin and the other parks, I leave nothing but footprints. Great post. WE ALREADY PAY FOR THESE PARKS. What we aren't getting in our money's worth. Why is it always OK to constantly raise fees (TAXES), Tolls (TAXES), user fees (TAXES) ? It's all TAXES. Call it what it is.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 28, 2014 22:52:58 GMT -4
I'd take it on a case by case basis. There's clearly not enough money to properly police and maintain the public parks, so I'm fine with charging a small annual fee to the people that use them. You can't constantly Censored Bad Word Here and moan about the state of our public parks, then when the county tries to improve them via a small fee Censored Bad Word Here and moan about that too. Yes, some of our taxes already go towards the parks, but it's obviously not enough to provide the services that people expect. Luckily it's a voluntary fee. If you don't think it's enforceable then what are you complaining about? Don't buy a pass and use the parks like you always have, you won't get a ticket right? Also, that stuff happens all the time. Toll roads, bridge tolls, etc... If you build a new house you have to pay to hook up to county sewer. If you think public school is free then you obviously don't have children in school. I have kids in school. Paying taxes to support the schools benefits all. Keeps them from becoming criminals since they have half a shot at getting a job... Sorry but "case by case basis" doesn't cut it. Who makes that decision? Because you happen to not use a road in eastern QA County doesn't make it ok to not include that road in taxation for it's construction or maintenance. Same here. We have a nice park. It's paid for with tax money. It enhances our community for everyone. Makes it a little nicer of a place to live. It's worthwhile supporting. But taxing it twice with not only our property taxes but an additional fee is BS. Again, the fee/tax is unenforceable, why are you worried about it? Don't pay it. You have kids in school but you think our taxes cover all school expenses? Is school lunch free? Why not, we pay taxes right? How about field trips? How about school supplies? The list goes on. Of course I'd prefer to not pay a fee to use the parks, but it's clear that our taxes don't cover the services that we're demanding. If nothing improves in the next year or two once they start getting the revenue from these fees then I'll be right there with you complaining about them. Until then, you're just spinning your wheels.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 28, 2014 22:56:50 GMT -4
We already pay for the parks. The parks are NOT being policed. The parks are NOT being maintained. Not so very long ago Terrapin Park was nice. Educational placards throughout with information on plants and animals. Today they are all but gone, and the ones that remain are in horrible condition. I frequent the park pretty often. I have NEVER seen the Sheriff's Department or any County personnel roll through. I'm kind of surprised that no one has been jumped there yet to be honest. Trash is everywhere, and Kristan's group is to be commended. But Kristan and her group SHOULDN'T need to do what they do. That's why we pay taxes. Paying an additional tax, which is unenforceable, isn't going to change ANYTHING. Decent parks, just like decent schools and roads and all of the infrastructure that is maintained by local government is essential to keep our county a good place to live. Paying for all of this, no matter if you personally use it or not, does benefit you in the long run. I have no problem paying taxes. None at all. It's the right thing to do and the patriotic thing to do in order to maintain and improve what we have. I don't however like paying taxes TWICE when it's pretty unlikely that those funds will be used to improve the parks that we're already paying for. And BTW, when I visit Terrapin and the other parks, I leave nothing but footprints. Great post. WE ALREADY PAY FOR THESE PARKS. What we aren't getting in our money's worth. Why is it always OK to constantly raise fees (TAXES), Tolls (TAXES), user fees (TAXES) ? It's all TAXES. Call it what it is. Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, which everyone complains about. People want the parks to be cleaner, policed, etc... That stuff isn't free. Again, I'd prefer to not have the fee/tax/whatever, but if it takes $35 a year to clean up the parks then I'm all for it. That's a small price to pay.
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Post by jake on Apr 29, 2014 1:35:46 GMT -4
"Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, which everyone complains about. People want the parks to be cleaner, policed, etc... That stuff isn't free."
This is wrong on so many levels; we do not pay taxes for these parks as "they currently are". Laws and regulations are pass and agencies are hired to enforce the rules and regulations currently in place. people/families living on these beaches are breaking these laws. there has been no real effort to enforce the laws because of the current P.C. environment. It is not a lack of funds or capabilities, but a lack of desire. County residents paying this new 'tax' will not solve the beach trash problem; the problem makers are not driving to these locations. If crime went up along Davol rd. in Cloverfields do we need an addition tax to pay for more patrols??
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Post by beverlyw on Apr 29, 2014 3:08:46 GMT -4
Hi, if it went to a cleanup program or fund a patrol unit for the parks... but I'm sure the money is going to be pissed away.
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Post by sendain on Apr 29, 2014 11:43:28 GMT -4
Note the County Commissioners crew that voted FOR this double tax.... All five of the Commissioners voted for this NEW TAX.. man I am so glad we can vote them all out in JUNE.
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Post by sendain on Apr 29, 2014 11:53:01 GMT -4
I was pissed about this at first too, but it could be a good thing. $35 a year is chump change, but it might be enough to keep at least some of the riff raff out. Also, since there's money involved, there will probably be more of a Police presence. WTH it maybe ok for you to pay for more taxes. But not me I pay over $5k a year to this county and I don't get jack Sh--t for it. So lets just let them tax us all to death
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 29, 2014 21:43:15 GMT -4
I was pissed about this at first too, but it could be a good thing. $35 a year is chump change, but it might be enough to keep at least some of the riff raff out. Also, since there's money involved, there will probably be more of a Police presence. WTH it maybe ok for you to pay for more taxes. But not me I pay over $5k a year to this county and I don't get jack Sh--t for it. So lets just let them tax us all to death Really, you don't get anything for your taxes?
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 29, 2014 21:46:05 GMT -4
"Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, which everyone complains about. People want the parks to be cleaner, policed, etc... That stuff isn't free." This is wrong on so many levels; we do not pay taxes for these parks as "they currently are". Laws and regulations are pass and agencies are hired to enforce the rules and regulations currently in place. people/families living on these beaches are breaking these laws. there has been no real effort to enforce the laws because of the current P.C. environment. It is not a lack of funds or capabilities, but a lack of desire. County residents paying this new 'tax' will not solve the beach trash problem; the problem makers are not driving to these locations. If crime went up along Davol rd. in Cloverfields do we need an addition tax to pay for more patrols?? How do you know this? And yes, if crime in QAC rose to the point that they needed to hire new deputies then they would either need to raise taxes or cut services elsewhere.
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Post by frankf on Apr 29, 2014 21:48:00 GMT -4
Great post. WE ALREADY PAY FOR THESE PARKS. What we aren't getting in our money's worth. Why is it always OK to constantly raise fees (TAXES), Tolls (TAXES), user fees (TAXES) ? It's all TAXES. Call it what it is. Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, which everyone complains about. People want the parks to be cleaner, policed, etc... That stuff isn't free. Again, I'd prefer to not have the fee/tax/whatever, but if it takes $35 a year to clean up the parks then I'm all for it. That's a small price to pay. The issue is that we are ALREADY paying for the maintenance, cleaning and policing of the parks. We aren't GETTING those services. I have no problem paying a tax when the results of that tax are evident. At this point, services to these parks is minimal at best, and non-existant at worst (look at the condition of the placards at Terrapin). I spend a decent amount of time there. I have YET to see a patrol, county or sheriff. BTW, I have emailed all of the commissioners in regards to this issue. NONE have bothered to respond. NONE will get a vote for continuance in office come election time. One thing to disagree. Another to ignore constituency concerns.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 29, 2014 21:52:43 GMT -4
Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, which everyone complains about. People want the parks to be cleaner, policed, etc... That stuff isn't free. Again, I'd prefer to not have the fee/tax/whatever, but if it takes $35 a year to clean up the parks then I'm all for it. That's a small price to pay. The issue is that we are ALREADY paying for the maintenance, cleaning and policing of the parks. We aren't GETTING those services. I have no problem paying a tax when the results of that tax are evident. At this point, services to these parks is minimal at best, and non-existant at worst (look at the condition of the placards at Terrapin). I spend a decent amount of time there. I have YET to see a patrol, county or sheriff. BTW, I have emailed all of the commissioners in regards to this issue. NONE have bothered to respond. NONE will get a vote for continuance in office come election time. One thing to disagree. Another to ignore constituency concerns. We aren't getting those services because they don't have the money to provide those services. If someone has evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it and I would gladly change my position. Like I said, I'm willing to give them a chance and take them at their word that they will use the revenue to hire 1 or 2 park rangers.
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Post by bchevy on Apr 29, 2014 21:57:38 GMT -4
Yes, we do pay for these parks the way they currently are, [/quote] Humbug. ridiculous. We pay for them the way they should be. They should be maintained. I'm sure that buried in the justifications for the budget there are maintenance lines for these parks. It's called planning and scheduling and that is whats not happening. Get some of these county bosses to do their job instead of crying about what they can't do. Get the county workers off their butts and off to do some work. I'm tired of the cash cow that the citizen taxpayers have become. It's time to take back our government and make it work. Just about everyone running our government would not make it in the real world so they hide behind a government job and waste everything that is handed to them.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 29, 2014 22:04:59 GMT -4
This all sounds great and I'd love to see it happen. What are you doing about it? Are there park rangers sitting around not doing their jobs? Can you post the budget that you're talking about? If there's money budgeted towards maintenance that's not being used I'll be right there with you demanding action. If there's evidence of Park Rangers not neglecting their duties, again, I'll be right there with you.
What were the parks like 5 to 10 years ago? Did you have as many people using the parks? Were there as many people coming from out of the county to use the beaches? I wasn't here then so I don't know.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 29, 2014 22:30:58 GMT -4
Question for those of you that are so strongly against this. Let's say best case scenario, 2 years from now the beaches are a little cleaner, there's more regular patrols, the beach rules are actually enforced, etc... Would you still be against the $35 pass?
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Post by oriolesfan on Apr 30, 2014 5:20:33 GMT -4
My guess is they are banking on approx 3000 residents signing up to cover 2 employes salaries,benefits,medical etc
Or is the money going to be used to fund OT for the Sheriffs Office or NRP to patrol it extra duty
I just don't see it happening.
What happens to the money when enough people don't sign up?
I can't imagine people in Centreville etc are gonna buy these at all. Out of county folks def aren't going to as they won't even know about it and certainly aren't going to drive around looking to buy one
They are basically expecting the residents of Stevensville , Chester and Grasonville to fund this whole project
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Post by cranky64 on Apr 30, 2014 8:08:49 GMT -4
I e-mailed the commissioners as well, still waiting for a reply.
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Post by frankf on Apr 30, 2014 8:41:53 GMT -4
We aren't getting those services because they don't have the money to provide those services. If someone has evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it and I would gladly change my position. Like I said, I'm willing to give them a chance and take them at their word that they will use the revenue to hire 1 or 2 park rangers. Page 6 www.qac.org/Docs/Finance/Budget/ApprovedFY2014Budget_web.pdfParks line items: FY12 - $1,659,006 FY13 - $2,345,704 FY14 - $2,572,356 Now I understand that these figures include salaries, equipment, maintenance on equipment, gas, grass cutting on the fields, etc... However, Terrapin in particular, which I'm most familiar with have been almost totally neglected over the past 10 years. What were the parks like 10 years ago? Throughout Terrapin park were placards detailing the plant and animal life and their relationships to the environment and different areas such as meadows, tidal marsh, beaches, etc... Today they are all but gone, and the couple remaining are barely legible. There were also small placards in front of certain trees with species names. The benches throughout the park were accessible. Not any longer unless you're carrying a machete. The trails were better maintained. At this point many areas could use another coating of shell or gravel. Oh, and CRANKY, thanks for the multiple smites, going from ONE to MINUS FOURTEEN while I was online. It's on a$$hat.
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Post by deputy on Apr 30, 2014 13:09:41 GMT -4
The issue is that we are ALREADY paying for the maintenance, cleaning and policing of the parks. We aren't GETTING those services. I have no problem paying a tax when the results of that tax are evident. At this point, services to these parks is minimal at best, and non-existant at worst (look at the condition of the placards at Terrapin). I spend a decent amount of time there. I have YET to see a patrol, county or sheriff. BTW, I have emailed all of the commissioners in regards to this issue. NONE have bothered to respond. NONE will get a vote for continuance in office come election time. One thing to disagree. Another to ignore constituency concerns. We aren't getting those services because they don't have the money to provide those services. If someone has evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it and I would gladly change my position. Like I said, I'm willing to give them a chance and take them at their word that they will use the revenue to hire 1 or 2 park rangers. Do you work for the County? I also tend to think we aren't getting what we pay for now. We certainly aren't getting our moneys worth. Do park rangers pick up trash? Do they have authority to ticket you? Fine you? Arrest you? I don't know, but I would think that anyone with some authority wont be picking up trash.. I don't see a Park ranger being an answer unless you have one at each park all day, and that certainly isn't going to happen. I'd bet most park rangers don't make a career of picking up litter. Here's some options Send some of the extra dump personnel to police the parks, there's almost always at least 1 person holding up a wall, or warming a seat when I go down there. Get the inmates out there, there's some free labor. Need to serve some community service time? Clean a park.
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Post by ravens20 on Apr 30, 2014 20:55:56 GMT -4
We aren't getting those services because they don't have the money to provide those services. If someone has evidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it and I would gladly change my position. Like I said, I'm willing to give them a chance and take them at their word that they will use the revenue to hire 1 or 2 park rangers. Page 6 www.qac.org/Docs/Finance/Budget/ApprovedFY2014Budget_web.pdfParks line items: FY12 - $1,659,006 FY13 - $2,345,704 FY14 - $2,572,356 Now I understand that these figures include salaries, equipment, maintenance on equipment, gas, grass cutting on the fields, etc... However, Terrapin in particular, which I'm most familiar with have been almost totally neglected over the past 10 years. What were the parks like 10 years ago? Throughout Terrapin park were placards detailing the plant and animal life and their relationships to the environment and different areas such as meadows, tidal marsh, beaches, etc... Today they are all but gone, and the couple remaining are barely legible. There were also small placards in front of certain trees with species names. The benches throughout the park were accessible. Not any longer unless you're carrying a machete. The trails were better maintained. At this point many areas could use another coating of shell or gravel. Oh, and CRANKY, thanks for the multiple smites, going from ONE to MINUS FOURTEEN while I was online. It's on a$$hat. Yea, I was hoping to see how they actually spent the money, but I'm not sure if that's even publicly available. Local and State governments have had to deal with a terrible economy just like the rest of us, so I understand service degrading over the last ~10 years, especially if there are even more people coming from out of the county to use our parks. I don't want to pay the fee any more than you do, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone present an alternative other than a bunch of hyperbole about lazy government workers.
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Post by alleycat on May 1, 2014 7:51:59 GMT -4
Yeah, deputy, let's get the inmates out there. Who's going to police them, if we can't even police the litter issue.
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Post by shorejunto on May 1, 2014 10:26:05 GMT -4
Pretty important! Know this before election day! The Beach Fee was an idea of the Parks and Recreation Advisory board, they are the ones who suggested it to the County Commissioners! The Parks and Rec Advisory Board's vice chairman, Jen George, is now running for the Board of Education. Perhaps we can expect more fees to pop up as part of our education system. No thanks! People ought to know.
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Post by double on May 1, 2014 10:37:30 GMT -4
Remember a few commission boards ago and all the land they bought to conserve and make parks. Well, this is what happens.
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Post by oriolesfan on May 1, 2014 13:00:28 GMT -4
Yeah, deputy, let's get the inmates out there. Who's going to police them, if we can't even police the litter issue. Inmates are supervised on clean up crews. It's actually a good idea
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Post by ravens20 on May 2, 2014 0:49:13 GMT -4
Yeah, deputy, let's get the inmates out there. Who's going to police them, if we can't even police the litter issue. Inmates are supervised on clean up crews. It's actually a good idea I agree, it is a good idea. Not sure what it would take to make that happen though.
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Post by Frank on May 2, 2014 8:07:04 GMT -4
Someone with the balls to make it happen! When I lived in Georgia, we regularly saw inmates, some shackled at the ankles, cleaning state highways. I would drive by with my kids and tell them "This is what happens when you break the law"
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