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Post by constructr on Dec 16, 2014 18:50:03 GMT -4
I'm sure this may be in the 100 page thread on the subject, but whats the scoop with the water/sewer for south end of the island?? Is it going to proceed? If so, is the County making everyone hook to it or can you opt out?
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Post by frankf on Dec 16, 2014 20:28:17 GMT -4
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Post by jackbquick on Dec 16, 2014 21:10:09 GMT -4
Not sure if the new commissioners are going to try to derail all the progress made but I do know the last set locked down 11.5 million grant and very low financing. If they run it everyone in the nine communities had to connect. If you don't, you will still be forced to pay $100 a month so not sure why you would not want to connect.
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Post by burnerbill on Dec 18, 2014 11:12:31 GMT -4
I have personally spoken with two of the newly elected commissioners and they have said they will not stop the sewer. They are concerned about the cost estimates being sound, which makes sense, and the selection of the STEP system being the best choice instead of a more expensive, full vacuum system like Bay City and Cloverfields has. All of them have been fully briefed by the state about the project and the "money train" from the state is approved. County is in the midst of beginning the site engineering for homes, beginning with the areas to be hooked up first, Romancoke on the Bay and a section of Kent Island Estates in the vicinity of the fire house on the west side of Rt 8 south of Kent Point Rd.
There is a significant amount of pressure coming from the state to get this project done. There continues to be chirping by the "No Sewer" crowd, QACA and KIDL, but, some of their biggest concerns have been alleviated to a great extent by this project. number 1 - the costs to homeowner is no where near as expensive as originally estimated; number 2 - the number of potential new homes has been chopped by almost 60% from over 1500 potential new homes to 632, the number the county and state agreed to limit the growth to within the 9 communities in scope. With all the work that has been done to date at both the county and state level, for this group to decide to say "never mind" would amount to be political suicide with the state and simply drive up the costs for everyone. I do not think they'd want to throw away almost $12M in grant money, which greatly assists the existing homeowners with costs, and the low cost loan from the state.
As to the question about being forced to "hook up", I believe you have no choice. Best answer could come from someone who lives in either Bay City or Cloverfields and what they went through this when they got sewer. I am certain everything we are seeing and hearing regarding the SKI project is identical to what was happening when those areas were getting their sewer.
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Post by lainey on Jan 20, 2015 16:36:47 GMT -4
The lawsuits are coming. Just read about the first one filed.
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Post by alleycat on Jan 20, 2015 19:10:05 GMT -4
There was no choice in hooking up to sewer/water in bay city, although people were allowed to keep their wells for gardens and such. I have no memory of any financial assistance. Would have bee nice.
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 20, 2015 22:36:10 GMT -4
The lawsuits are coming. Just read about the first one filed. Yep! Or we could have treated all property owners the same and then there would be none. Got to thank the anti-growth over the top folks for this one.
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dano
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by dano on Jan 21, 2015 8:39:21 GMT -4
We didn't get one red cent from anyone 20+ years ago here in Cloverfields to help fund sewer and water. With a stroke of a pen, the Md. Dept. Environment chose to enforce Federal and State EPA law. What followed were unfunded mandates levied upon each and every home and property owner. To say many long time residents are still reeling from anger and resentment having to face considerable financial hardship would be a under statement, to put it politely.
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Post by lainey on Jan 21, 2015 9:22:50 GMT -4
And now that the lawsuits are coming, all taxpayers may indeed be on the hook for SKI sewer issues. This is not the result of an anti growthers doing. This lawsuit Iis filed by a real estate speculator who owns plenty of lots down there.
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 21, 2015 10:25:40 GMT -4
And now that the lawsuits are coming, all taxpayers may indeed be on the hook for SKI sewer issues. This is not the result of an anti growthers doing. This lawsuit Iis filed by a real estate speculator who owns plenty of lots down there. And because the anti-growth growth over the top folks fought so hard to cut out as many lots as possible. If all the lots were included, this lawsuit would not be an issue. If government is going to provide a public utility, then each property owner should be treated equal. Have you ever heard of anyone being denied the right to connect to the electrical grid?
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Post by deputy on Jan 21, 2015 11:20:10 GMT -4
We didn't get one red cent from anyone 20+ years ago here in Cloverfields to help fund sewer and water. With a stroke of a pen, the Md. Dept. Environment chose to enforce Federal and State EPA law. What followed were unfunded mandates levied upon each and every home and property owner. To say many long time residents are still reeling from anger and resentment having to face considerable financial hardship would be a under statement, to put it politely. Same goes for Bay City, IIRC $8k for houses, $18k for empty lots/and passed right along to the new owners on top of the now inflated property values.
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Post by deputy on Jan 21, 2015 11:24:29 GMT -4
As to the question about being forced to "hook up", I believe you have no choice. Best answer could come from someone who lives in either Bay City or Cloverfields and what they went through this when they got sewer. I am certain everything we are seeing and hearing regarding the SKI project is identical to what was happening when those areas were getting their sewer. Yep, forced to cave in a fairly new concrete tank, on a perfectly fine working system. On the bright side, we have a "REAL" system. Keep asking to settle for a STEP system. They are and always will be a major headache, none of them are not maintenance heavy. bchevy and I have, and still work on a couple of different STEP systems. Do NOT settle for this, anyone but a speculator WILL BE SORRY.
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Post by pineapple head on Jan 21, 2015 12:09:08 GMT -4
We didn't get one red cent from anyone 20+ years ago here in Cloverfields to help fund sewer and water. With a stroke of a pen, the Md. Dept. Environment chose to enforce Federal and State EPA law. What followed were unfunded mandates levied upon each and every home and property owner. To say many long time residents are still reeling from anger and resentment having to face considerable financial hardship would be a under statement, to put it politely. Ironically, this seems to be a potential argument in favor of the current sewer initiative. Is it arguably applying a hard lesson learned from the Cloverfields mess, to now proactively address the southern KI sewer extension? That doesn't make the Cloverfields experience any more fair, but sounds like the state or feds could make this a moot point. (And unfortunately I've never seen a shred of evidence to support an expectation that life be fair ...).
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 21, 2015 13:18:28 GMT -4
As to the question about being forced to "hook up", I believe you have no choice. Best answer could come from someone who lives in either Bay City or Cloverfields and what they went through this when they got sewer. I am certain everything we are seeing and hearing regarding the SKI project is identical to what was happening when those areas were getting their sewer. Yep, forced to cave in a fairly new concrete tank, on a perfectly fine working system. On the bright side, we have a "REAL" system. Keep asking to settle for a STEP system. They are and always will be a major headache, none of them are not maintenance heavy. bchevy and I have, and still work on a couple of different STEP systems. Do NOT settle for this, anyone but a speculator WILL BE SORRY. When you say speculator you meant people who bought homes in an existing community of homes and vacant lots thinking the day would never come where the vacant lot neighbor would be able to build right?
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Post by deputy on Jan 21, 2015 13:32:52 GMT -4
Yep, forced to cave in a fairly new concrete tank, on a perfectly fine working system. On the bright side, we have a "REAL" system. Keep asking to settle for a STEP system. They are and always will be a major headache, none of them are not maintenance heavy. bchevy and I have, and still work on a couple of different STEP systems. Do NOT settle for this, anyone but a speculator WILL BE SORRY. When you say speculator you meant people who bought homes in an existing community of homes and vacant lots thinking the day would never come where the vacant lot neighbor would be able to build right? Since I know you wont take my word for it, and you always miss my point, or try to tell me what I meant. I found this and it hits it dead on: So no, a typical home buyer probably wouldn't fit the bill. You know what it is, at least I hope you do.
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Post by deputy on Jan 21, 2015 13:38:41 GMT -4
Can Bay City and Cloverfields resident now sue for their share of expenses incurred, equal to the assistance being offered in the $12M grant?
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 21, 2015 14:28:18 GMT -4
When you say speculator you meant people who bought homes in an existing community of homes and vacant lots thinking the day would never come where the vacant lot neighbor would be able to build right? Since I know you wont take my word for it, and you always miss my point, or try to tell me what I meant. I found this and it hits it dead on: So no, a typical home buyer probably wouldn't fit the bill. You know what it is, at least I hope you do. Doesn't say anything about someone who bought an existing lot of record (piece of land) who believes they should have the same right as an existing homeowner to connect to a public utility does it? Also I disagree with the definition above. I would call that an investor. Just like a homeowner is an investor in their home and property. I would call a speculator the person who bought a home in a community of homes and vacant lots thinking the neighbor who owns the vacant lot would never develope it. I would call the person who bought the vacant lot knowing it would be buildable as soon as an inevitable public utility was installed, an investor or if bought at a low enough price, a genius!
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 21, 2015 14:34:52 GMT -4
Can Bay City and Cloverfields resident now sue for their share of expenses incurred, equal to the assistance being offered in the $12M grant? I would hope so. They should also sue for having to pay a larger share of the cost to upgrade the treatment plant through higher than expected monthly bills because it took so long for the SKI residents to share the burden.
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Post by loudness on Jan 21, 2015 15:42:00 GMT -4
It sucks that the cost is there, but drinking polluted bay water is not a good thing to do either. City water/sewer will help keep the crap out of the bay and keep your kids from drinking and bathing in polluted water.
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Post by burnerbill on Jan 21, 2015 17:09:31 GMT -4
The SKI Sewer project, as it is mapped out, is a compromise between the two extreme factions opining on this project.
On the one side you have the anti sewer crowd (QACA and KIDL mostly)who expressed concerns for costs to the residents, the taxpayers, over crowding and exploding growth of thousands of new homes. The other is the "let's build it all" crowd (KI Voice) who did not want any restrictions on in-fill so any "speculators" could see their investments in any land, not just lot owners, come to fruition.
As it stands, the project is receiving favorable financial benefits from the "Flush Tax", which was not available at the time Bay City and Cloverfields got their sewer, and a very low cost loan from the state. Additionally, the Lot Consolidation ordnance and agreement with the state will limit connections and all in-fill growth to only the 9 impacted communities, reducing potential new homes using existing, platted, in-fill lots from over 1600 to approximately 632 homes at most. No other, new, developments can hook up to the sewer line. The STEP system is also a compromise between the more expensive full vacuum system and its much higher costs to residents. And, Yes, I read your comments, deputy. Unless you, personally, have seen the systems the county is proposing to use, you can't use your experiences with an older system as a "defacto" negative for this system being proposed. That is like looking at a 20 year old Lincoln TownCar with 500,000 miles on it and all its problems and telling someone buying a new TownCar today that they will have nothing but problems. New engineering has its benefits.
Anyway, that is where it is.
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Post by shorelovinit on Jan 21, 2015 21:58:17 GMT -4
We didn't get one red cent from anyone 20+ years ago here in Cloverfields to help fund sewer and water. With a stroke of a pen, the Md. Dept. Environment chose to enforce Federal and State EPA law. What followed were unfunded mandates levied upon each and every home and property owner. To say many long time residents are still reeling from anger and resentment having to face considerable financial hardship would be a under statement, to put it politely. You are right. We in Cloverfields didn't get a d**n cent. And we have been forced to pay for the interest on the loan to keep the southern kent island lots from being developed for decades! No one is talking about it, and probably most homeowners don't know it. Those objecting the most and speaking the loudest at the public meetings live in the affected communities and are personally benefiting from the State Grant. I think we homeowners in Cloverfields should get reimbursed by the county. I don't know if they are planning to do that, but if not, we should start searching for lawyers and do a class action lawsuit against the county. As far as I'm concerned, if those on southern kent island don't want the lots developed like they were in our community, they should just not let any lots get sewer. Then let the homeowners foot the entire bill. Or let them all put in holding tanks. Would serve everyone right, because they listened and bought into the greedy anti-growth agenda.
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Post by alleycat on Jan 21, 2015 22:29:48 GMT -4
We didn't get one red cent from anyone 20+ years ago here in Cloverfields to help fund sewer and water. With a stroke of a pen, the Md. Dept. Environment chose to enforce Federal and State EPA law. What followed were unfunded mandates levied upon each and every home and property owner. To say many long time residents are still reeling from anger and resentment having to face considerable financial hardship would be a under statement, to put it politely. Hear hear
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Post by lainey on Jan 22, 2015 9:34:36 GMT -4
The state funds that we are applying for to assist homeowners with failing septics in SKI was never supposed to increase the number of homes in SKI. So, I guess beggars cannot be choosers. QAC officials should have been aware of this when they were formulating their plan to apply for these funds. But they sold it to folks as a 100.00 a month plan. The State said no to the land speculators. Not to a single homeowner was denied. So, I guess we can either solve a problem or we can complain that real estate developers, land speculators, got screwed. I don't see that scenario myself. Speculators bought those lots in an unbuildable condition and that fact remains today, unbuildable. Now, we, the taxpayers, are involved in a lawsuit that could cost everyone in the county a bunch of money.
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Post by jackbquick on Jan 22, 2015 9:41:14 GMT -4
The state funds that we are applying for to assist homeowners with failing septics in SKI was never supposed to increase the number of homes in SKI. So, I guess beggars cannot be choosers. QAC officials should have been aware of this when they were formulating their plan to apply for these funds. But they sold it to folks as a 100.00 a month plan. The State said no to the land speculators. Not to a single homeowner was denied. So, I guess we can either solve a problem or we can complain that real estate developers, land speculators, got screwed. I don't see that scenario myself. Speculators bought those lots in an unbuildable condition and that fact remains today, unbuildable. Now, we, the taxpayers, are involved in a lawsuit that could cost everyone in the county a bunch of money. They were unbuildable because a sewer line did not cross their property. Now a sewer line is going to cross their property and they are buildable. Why can't you get that concept. We have laws in place so that everyone can ride the bus and even sit where you want on the bus, not just the back!
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Post by lainey on Jan 22, 2015 10:22:54 GMT -4
Why don't you get the concept, the money you are using to build that system does not allow for more homes compounding the problem. You don't get to make the rules when you use someone else's money. Pay for your own ride on that bus. State funds are for homeowners. Not speculators.
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