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Post by bluecrabber on Feb 1, 2009 9:50:44 GMT -4
That's the point I've been trying to make in this and other threads, falgar: we like to whine and moan about how much business goes overseas, and yet we're not willing to pay the extra money to buy American. If American Car companies would build better quality it would increase their sales. Then people would buy products like these from our own soil. I take exception to this continuing myth... American car companies ARE building cars that are as good as foreign. It is just one more case of the media selling newspapers rather than reporting the truth. Second, this thread has almost gotten to the "first, we kill all the lawyers post".. that's why we have all the safety rules and regulations that have driven up the price of everything manufactured in the U.S. For example, most of us grew up riding in the back seat of the old Chevy standing up on the seat or jumping up and down. When Mom slammed on the brakes we slammed into the back of the front seat.. no problem.. today, you have to have a safety seat of the right size for the kid that costs over a hundred bucks and takes an engineer to figure out how to use it. Meanwhile, Mom is in the front seat talking on the cell phone, drinking her Starbucks latte, giving the universal gesture of good will to the driver in front of her. Evolution can sometimes be regressive. Best regards, BC
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Post by jake on Feb 1, 2009 10:01:56 GMT -4
The Stimulus Bill will stimulate the pockets of the corrupt capitalists and politicians that got us into this mess. The goal of the politician is to get reelected by any means. The goal of the capitalist if profit by any means. Just a wee bit cynical there Pete, The goal of the politician("some"} is to get reelected by any means. The goal of the capitalist ("some")if profit by any means.[/ bad apples in every bunch; lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, ect.............
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Post by jake on Feb 1, 2009 10:07:25 GMT -4
That's the point I've been trying to make in this and other threads, falgar: we like to whine and moan about how much business goes overseas, and yet we're not willing to pay the extra money to buy American. If American Car companies would build better quality it would increase their sales. Then people would buy products like these from our own soil. American Car companies can't compete because of their Union contracts, plain an simple. Because of the benefit payouts they are losing money on every car they sell.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 10:32:33 GMT -4
Here's an idea of some ways that I think we should be thinking outside the box.......
Take the US auto industry. Bailout money going to them, we should be getting stock in the companies. The fed is an investor.
Even though things are down.....some people are still going to need to buy new cars and trucks.
Give the people an incentive to buy US made vehicles. They should offer something like a 10 year/100,00 mile warranty with free oil changes. Sure this would cost a lot. But the companies are tanking anyway, so what do they have to lose.
People buy foreign cars for various reasons and one of those is reliability. Take some of that issue out of the buying situation.
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Post by falgar25 on Feb 1, 2009 11:52:55 GMT -4
Reliability, price, and features all play into the choice to buy a foreign vehicle.
I bought a Toyota Prius two years ago for about $24K. It gets about 48mpg, runs on regular unleaded fuel, and has so far required no special maintenance. It replaced a series of other Toyotas reaching back to the early 1990s that each got 30+mpg and were replaced when we became bored with them, not because of reliability problems.
The Ford Volt is supposed to come out soon. This vehicle is supposed to travel 40 miles on battery alone and then becomes a typical, four-cylinder car. It needs to be plugged in to recharge the batteries. It is projected to cost about $40K.
So real soon now Ford will have a vehicle that cost more than the foreign car, gets better mileage for the first 40 miles but worse after that, and requires special maintenance (plugging it in).
Other than that vehicle, American car companies are now advertising their "crossovers" and other high-mpg vehicles that get something like 32mpg. They are a little less than 20 years behind the foreign cars in that respect. (To be fair, the non-hybrid foreign cars still get about 30mpg so the American vehicles have now caught up)
My second vehicle is a 2002 American SUV. It has been in for repairs once already. It needs to go in for more repairs soon but I've been holding off until a few more things go wrong in order to save trips to the shop.
So in my experience, the foreign vehicles have the models I want, the features I want, the reliability I want, and the price I want. I could stand on principles and only buy American, but is it really my personal responsibility to prop up the economy by paying morefor the vehicle, paying more for the fuel to run it, and paying more for the numerous repairs?
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Post by falgar25 on Feb 1, 2009 12:12:12 GMT -4
The Stimulus Bill will stimulate the pockets of the corrupt capitalists and politicians that got us into this mess. The goal of the politician is to get reelected by any means. The goal of the capitalist if profit by any means. Just a wee bit cynical there Pete, The goal of the politician("some"} is to get reelected by any means. The goal of the capitalist ("some")if profit by any means.[/ bad apples in every bunch; lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, ect............. I tend to agree with pete. There are some altruistic politicians and capitalists, but doing good for the community isn't the main goal of either group. If a politician doesn't get elected, he isn't a very good politician and if a capitalist doesn't make a profit, he isn't a very good capitalist. In politics, the game goes something like this. The politician makes promises that he probably cannot keep but will get him elected. Once elected, he picks and chooses the promises to keep with an eye towards the next election (either his or his party's). The citizens are responsible for coming together and convincing the politician that keeping certain promises is his key to reelection. The citizens then get to decide, at the next election, whether this politician was easy enough to influence or whether they will have a better chance with the new guy. Cynical, sure, but based on observation rather than theory. There certainly have been politicians who have taken the moral ground on various issues. Often, we talk about those issues as the beginning of the end of their political careers.
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Post by jake on Feb 1, 2009 14:43:43 GMT -4
"Yesterday at 4:30pm, pete1 wrote:The Stimulus Bill will stimulate the pockets of the corrupt capitalists and politicians that got us into this mess. The goal of the politician is to get reelected by any means. The goal of the capitalist if profit by any means. "
"I tend to agree with pete. There are some altruistic politicians and capitalists, but doing good for the community isn't the main goal of either group. If a politician doesn't get elected, he isn't a very good politician and if a capitalist doesn't make a profit, he isn't a very good capitalist."
I don't agree 'most' politicians or capitalist do these things "at any cost". Most people I know are looking to make a profit but in an honest way, and "most" politicians want to do what is right for the country, we/they disagree on how to do it.
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Post by bluecrabber on Feb 2, 2009 9:51:09 GMT -4
Reliability, price, and features all play into the choice to buy a foreign vehicle. I bought a Toyota Prius two years ago for about $24K. It gets about 48mpg, runs on regular unleaded fuel, and has so far required no special maintenance. It replaced a series of other Toyotas reaching back to the early 1990s that each got 30+mpg and were replaced when we became bored with them, not because of reliability problems.(SNIP) My Chevy Impala could smash your Prius back into the beer cans it was made out of! The Prius is a great car! No doubt about it. But, for my personal comfort and safety I prefer a little more "beef" around me and my passengers. I have a 2002 Chevy Impala bought new for about $21K. It is fully loaded with all the creature comforts. The car since new has averaged 29.2 mpg over all driving conditions. On the highway it actually gets about 34 mpg. It is a 4.7 liter V6 that has gobs of get up and go.. At today's gas prices I can drive to Florida for $70. The only issue I ever had with the car was the driver's power window regualtor cable broke.... likely designed to save weight. Now the Prius on the other hand seems to have a few angry owners: www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_prius.htmlBut, let's be serious. Our cars are like our kids.. as long as they don't embarass us in public we idolize them.. Best regards, BC
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Post by moosie on Feb 2, 2009 10:39:00 GMT -4
If American Car companies would build better quality it would increase their sales. Then people would buy products like these from our own soil. [/quote]
at one time, we were the premier manufacturers of cars and many other things. now it seems we produce things of lower quality than you can by elsewhere (cars, for example) or we produce nothing at all. we need a fundamental change to being a nation of producers, or we need to accept things as they are and adjust. maybe we don't have to be producers, and maybe we don't have to be concerned about buying foreign cars and other products. but we need to adjust our economy and other things to where we are not bankrupted. unions are trying to protect their workers, for example, but maybe they should be more realistic. they will have no workers soon. also, we need to produce better products. i buy american when i can, but it becoming increasingly difficult. i also will not by an inferior product just because. that is not the solution.
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Post by funnel101 on Feb 2, 2009 13:48:43 GMT -4
Reliability, price, and features all play into the choice to buy a foreign vehicle. I bought a Toyota Prius two years ago for about $24K. It gets about 48mpg, runs on regular unleaded fuel, and has so far required no special maintenance. It replaced a series of other Toyotas reaching back to the early 1990s that each got 30+mpg and were replaced when we became bored with them, not because of reliability problems. The Ford Volt is supposed to come out soon. This vehicle is supposed to travel 40 miles on battery alone and then becomes a typical, four-cylinder car. It needs to be plugged in to recharge the batteries. It is projected to cost about $40K. So real soon now Ford will have a vehicle that cost more than the foreign car, gets better mileage for the first 40 miles but worse after that, and requires special maintenance (plugging it in). Other than that vehicle, American car companies are now advertising their "crossovers" and other high-mpg vehicles that get something like 32mpg. They are a little less than 20 years behind the foreign cars in that respect. (To be fair, the non-hybrid foreign cars still get about 30mpg so the American vehicles have now caught up) My second vehicle is a 2002 American SUV. It has been in for repairs once already. It needs to go in for more repairs soon but I've been holding off until a few more things go wrong in order to save trips to the shop. So in my experience, the foreign vehicles have the models I want, the features I want, the reliability I want, and the price I want. I could stand on principles and only buy American, but is it really my personal responsibility to prop up the economy by paying morefor the vehicle, paying more for the fuel to run it, and paying more for the numerous repairs? Psst, it's the Chevy Volt, not Ford.
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Post by island tech on Feb 2, 2009 18:43:49 GMT -4
If American Car companies would build better quality it would increase their sales. Then people would buy products like these from our own soil. I take exception to this continuing myth... American car companies ARE building cars that are as good as foreign. It is just one more case of the media selling newspapers rather than reporting the truth. Best regards, BC I'm in the business and can tell you first hand that some foreign car companies make way better products than American. Toyota and Honda are a cut above the rest. This is not a myth! And if I were to be involved in an accident in a Honda/Toyota or an American car I would pick the foreign.
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thor
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Post by thor on Feb 2, 2009 20:18:39 GMT -4
Folks, some great ideas are being written, but if you want to be taken seriously, please don't take another writer's ideas and words and try to pass them off as your own... Poor form KL!
The Ugly Truth: America's Economy is Not Coming Back Wed, 01/28/2009 - 18:31 — dlindorff
What we are now seeing is the beginning of an inevitable downward adjustment in American living standards to conform with our actual place in the world. As a nation of consumers, and not producers, with little to offer to the rest of the world except raw materials, food crops, military hardware and bad films (none of which industries employ many people), we are headed to a recovery that will not feel like a recovery at all. Eventually, productive capacity will be restored, as lowered US wages make it again profitable for some things to be made here at home again, but like people in the 1930s looking back at the Roaring 20s of yore, we are going to look back at the last two decades as some kind of dream.
It would be better if the new administration would be honest about this, because with honesty, we could have a recovery program that would actually address the real critical issues facing the country—the decline of our educational system, the irrationality of official promotion of home ownership that has led to the proliferation not just of suburbs but of exurbs, the over-reliance on the automobile for transportation, the unprecedented waste of resources, the pillaging of the environment, not to mention the decimation of the retirement system and the creation of a vast medical-industrial complex that is sucking the life-blood out of families and businesses alike.
With honesty, we could also confront the other big obstacle to national recovery—the nation’s obsession with militarism and foreign wars. The honest truth is that the US is technically bankrupt and in a state of chronic decline, and yet the nation persists in spending a trillion dollars a year on war and preparations for war, as though America were in mortal danger from foreign enemies.
The truth is that we are not threatened by Communism, by drug lords, or by Muslim Jihadists in any serious way. Rather, we have become our own worst enemy.
The administration could start by telling us all this straight up, but the problem is, most of us probably don’t want to hear it, which explains why we’re not hearing it. It also explains why we’re about to blow another trillion or so dollars on propping up failing banks, funding pointless highway and bridge construction, and blowing up illiterate peasants in remote places like Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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Post by bchevy on Feb 2, 2009 20:33:22 GMT -4
Obviously the Obama administration recognizes that it needs to keep the finger of blame for the current economic collapse squarely pointed at the Bush administration, which is certainly fair in large part....... ..........The truth is that we are not threatened by Communism, by drug lords, or by Muslim Jihadists in any serious way. Rather, we have become our own worst enemy. ........and blowing up illiterate peasants in remote places like Afghanistan and Pakistan. Talk about someone with their head in the sand....... Bush was handed the beginnings of this mess and his Dems in congress didn't heed the warnings. Not a threat? China is building an Army that would make the USSR jealous, 9/11 was not in the name of islamic Jihad? I don't know whose words those are, I'd be ashamed of them.
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Post by bluecrabber on Feb 2, 2009 21:24:37 GMT -4
I take exception to this continuing myth... American car companies ARE building cars that are as good as foreign. It is just one more case of the media selling newspapers rather than reporting the truth. Best regards, BC I'm in the business and can tell you first hand that some foreign car companies make way better products than American. Toyota and Honda are a cut above the rest. This is not a myth! And if I were to be involved in an accident in a Honda/Toyota or an American car I would pick the foreign. I suspected you were in the busines.. and I am the end user.. Compare the Chevy Impala that I own and the Mercedes the married lady I sometimes live with owns.. The Impala gets 30 mpg all day long and has never had a mechanical issue. The Mercedes gets about 19 mpg and has had brake issues, gas gauge issues, awd lockup issues, moon roof broke, wheel speed sensor issues, headliner fabric coming unglued, hmmm... there's probably a couple more, but as far as quality goes and reliability there ain't no comparison. Oh, edited for another good one.. the power steering pump leaks.. By the way, both vehicles are 2002 models.. I also have a 2005 Suburban.. gets 20 mpg on the highway and never had a mechanical issue. I also have a C5 Corvette.. smokes em! 35 mpg on the highway all day long with more horsepower than any sane individual needs. It ain't pretty sometimes how I drive that car. Never had a mechanical issue. It is a myth that American auto manufacturers are not building cars as good as the Japanese and Germans. It certainly was true about 20 years or more ago, but not today. Best regards, BC
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Post by shoreterp on Feb 3, 2009 15:55:03 GMT -4
The Impala gets 30 mpg all day long and has never had a mechanical issue. The Mercedes gets about 19 mpg and has had brake issues, gas gauge issues, awd lockup issues, moon roof broke, wheel speed sensor issues, headliner fabric coming unglued, hmmm... there's probably a couple more, but as far as quality goes and reliability there ain't no comparison. Oh, edited for another good one.. the power steering pump leaks.. By the way, both vehicles are 2002 models.. Don't confuse German vehicles with Japanese vehicles. German cars break down as much as, and probably more than, American cars Japanese vehicles are clearly superior in terms of reliability than either. I don't think you'll ever meet a Honda or Toyota owner who has anything but glowing reviews of their cars. I actually prefer the American vehicles (I have a Jeep) but if I were buying strictly for reliability, no question, I would buy a Japanese brand. American cars have improved but they still have a long way to go to catch the Japs IMHO My 88 Accord just finally began to give up on me (commuting vehicle) now I have moved up to a 97 Accord and the 12 year old Honda runs perfect. Just take a glance next time you are on Rt 50 at how many old Hondas you see every day. It is just amazing. 15 y/o Impalas? Don't see too many of those...
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Post by kl on Feb 4, 2009 7:06:04 GMT -4
The Impala gets 30 mpg all day long and has never had a mechanical issue. The Mercedes gets about 19 mpg and has had brake issues, gas gauge issues, awd lockup issues, moon roof broke, wheel speed sensor issues, headliner fabric coming unglued, hmmm... there's probably a couple more, but as far as quality goes and reliability there ain't no comparison. Oh, edited for another good one.. the power steering pump leaks.. By the way, both vehicles are 2002 models.. Don't confuse German vehicles with Japanese vehicles. German cars break down as much as, and probably more than, American cars Japanese vehicles are clearly superior in terms of reliability than either. I don't think you'll ever meet a Honda or Toyota owner who has anything but glowing reviews of their cars. I actually prefer the American vehicles (I have a Jeep) but if I were buying strictly for reliability, no question, I would buy a Japanese brand. American cars have improved but they still have a long way to go to catch the Japs IMHO My 88 Accord just finally began to give up on me (commuting vehicle) now I have moved up to a 97 Accord and the 12 year old Honda runs perfect. Just take a glance next time you are on Rt 50 at how many old Hondas you see every day. It is just amazing. 15 y/o Impalas? Don't see too many of those... My VW is quite reliable... ;D
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Post by einebierbitte on Feb 4, 2009 8:20:56 GMT -4
my feet are quite reliable.....Get's me where I am going, rarely breaks down, and parts are easy to come buy in any price range. The only negative or con...is that I just don't get anywhere fast..... But that's ok, cause my waist and my dogs benefit! ...
(lol, sorry couldn't resist). I have owend both toyota's and honda's..and love em!! Have a chevy now...love it....low maintenence...
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Post by kl on Feb 4, 2009 8:42:49 GMT -4
My Diamondback mountain bike is even more reliable, and gets about 20 miles a day!! :-) Honda, hands down is the best. Had a Honda one time....
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