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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 8:51:46 GMT -4
Who spends a big slice of economic pie on health care as a percentage of GDP (gross domestic product)? The top six countries are.
USA 16% France 11% Switzerland 10.8% Germany 10.4% Belgium 10.2% Canada 10.1%
Source: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)
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Post by hisea on Sept 26, 2009 9:43:55 GMT -4
So what are you saying? 16% sounds like a good way to make money and deliver new and better products. 16% also means if the Govt takes over health care we loss 16% of our freedom and capitalism.
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 26, 2009 22:51:26 GMT -4
The problem is, there is what the bill says, what the bill means, and how the bill will be interpreted in the future. Some see the silver lining and others notice the cloud. I agree with this completely. Some (many) of our elected politicians (including the president) have previously stated what they think our future health care system should look like. If you are interested, you can find those facts... In my opinion, there is a lot of gray area left open to interpretation and I think "we" lose when the government "interprets" anything on our behalf. Wonder why I'm skeptical, not buying the idea that this is the best thing for our country and our "individual" citizens...? I think I just heard a report about an upcoming bailout for the US Postal Service... Sorry folks, I'm just not able to buy into the whole concept that health care should be a "right" of everyone in the United States. I know we need reform, but a mandate by the Federal Government that "ALL" should have health care (privately, taxed if refused, or totally free and paid for by the rest of us) is the last straw for me. I AM TIRED OF PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 26, 2009 22:57:25 GMT -4
I AM TIRED OF PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Assuming you are covered by an employer based system, that's EXACTLY what you are currently doing. Group coverage is much cheaper than covering yourself as an individual. I challenge you to find an insurer that will cover you for less money than a group plan. If you find one, let us all know. I'm sure we'll all be happy to join up.
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 26, 2009 23:14:23 GMT -4
I AM TIRED OF PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Assuming you are covered by an employer based system, that's EXACTLY what you are currently doing. Group coverage is much cheaper than covering yourself as an individual. I challenge you to find an insurer that will cover you for less money than a group plan. If you find one, let us all know. I'm sure we'll all be happy to join up. Well, mister know everything..... I am an EMPLOYER, not an employee. I provide and create jobs. I recently laid-off my second employee. I have not drawn ONE CENT from my business in over two years because I am responsible for the financial livelihood of my employees (at least that's the way I see it as a business owner.) Following Rent and Payroll, just take a little guess what my next largest expense is? Go ahead...GUESS. That's right - Health Insurance. My employees are subject to a $500.00 per year deductible and a $25.00 Co-pay per visit for Primary Care. God forbid they need Physical Therapy ($40.00 per visit) Family or Individual Therapy ($40.00 per visit) and you don't even want to know about prescriptions, vision and dental... I also just happen to be a Health Care Provider and deal with the absolute nightmare of trying to get my money from Health Insurance companies ALL DAY - EVERY DAY...I employ one person full time just to do that! So, I ask you...I provide a service and have to fight to be paid for it. I provide my employees a "benefit" and "I" have to pay for it. My employees do contribute, but not a lot, otherwise, I'd have no employees. When you have something constructive to offer, then offer...Otherwise, why don't you take some of your own money and offer it to some "poor soul" who never contributed a thing and "expects" me to pay for it!
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 26, 2009 23:23:03 GMT -4
I have not drawn ONE CENT from my business in over two years because I am responsible for the financial livelihood of my employees Wow. That's quite wonderful of you. Providing jobs and health insurance and all and not making one red cent. How ** do ** you live and pay your own bills? I'm looking forward to your sainthood. Can I attend?
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 26, 2009 23:25:58 GMT -4
I AM TIRED OF PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Assuming you are covered by an employer based system, that's EXACTLY what you are currently doing. Group coverage is much cheaper than covering yourself as an individual. I challenge you to find an insurer that will cover you for less money than a group plan. If you find one, let us all know. I'm sure we'll all be happy to join up. And - there are plenty people out there who have "private" insurance that they have obtained "on their own" that is cheaper than could be obtained in a group plan. Group Plans are based on average age (among other things) and if your group has an older average age - say 55 years, you as a 31 year old individual can most certainly find "individual" insurance for less. You think that's incorrect, site a source and argue the merits of your case.
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 26, 2009 23:30:01 GMT -4
You think that's incorrect, site a source and argue the merits of your case. You claimed that's the case, go for it. Let's hear the insurance companies that do it cheaper for an individual... Oh, and more importantly, if one loses their job by a layoff, or in the case of an illness that doesn't allow them to work. How does that work? Please. Explain it to us since you profess to have the answers.
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 26, 2009 23:32:08 GMT -4
I have not drawn ONE CENT from my business in over two years because I am responsible for the financial livelihood of my employees Wow. That's quite wonderful of you. Providing jobs and health insurance and all and not making one red cent. How ** do ** you live and pay your own bills? I'm looking forward to your sainthood. Can I attend? I don't believe in saints - just doing the right thing. It is amazing how much some of us have learned to do without so that others who do nothing can have more than they've earned... I guess you won't be happy until the Government provides everything to everyone?
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 26, 2009 23:37:24 GMT -4
So you refuse to answer the questions? Where can those without insurance find it cheaper than a group policy. Where can those who have been laid off or lost employment due to serious health issues find insurance? You cite nothing to back up the claims that you as an employer are doing what you can. You claim you are making no money because of the health care situation, which can't be true for a coupla' reasons - because you can't pay your mortgage and pay your bills making no money, and why would you continue to operate your business if you aren't making the ends meet?
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 26, 2009 23:43:50 GMT -4
You think that's incorrect, site a source and argue the merits of your case. You claimed that's the case, go for it. Let's hear the insurance companies that do it cheaper for an individual... Oh, and more importantly, if one loses their job by a layoff, or in the case of an illness that doesn't allow them to work. How does that work? Please. Explain it to us since you profess to have the answers. Sorry - that was your claim. You prove an individual can't purchase an individual plan for less than a group plan. Layoff = Unemployment "Benefits" (State Mandated Insurance) Injury = Worker's Comp (Another State Mandated Tax) Illness = Worker's Comp/Existing Insurance/Disability/ Medicaid...who knows - get well and get another job. Why is that the responsibility of the employer?
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 26, 2009 23:49:04 GMT -4
Then maybe it's time for you to NOT offer health insurance as an employer and deal with the workers who are interested in working for you. As for your question regarding employees that get sick while employed by you, other than the moral issues, why wouldn't a Government option not be a welcome solution?
If the Marines can claim not responsible, why not employers?
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 27, 2009 0:13:18 GMT -4
So you refuse to answer the questions? Where can those without insurance find it cheaper than a group policy. Where can those who have been laid off or lost employment due to serious health issues find insurance? You cite nothing to back up the claims that you as an employer are doing what you can. You claim you are making no money because of the health care situation, which can't be true for a coupla' reasons - because you can't pay your mortgage and pay your bills making no money, and why would you continue to operate your business if you aren't making the ends meet? After this I will stop. First of all, you probably have absolutely NO idea what owning a business is like since you seem to think someone else should be taking care of everything else...I'm just guessing here (but, just slightly guessing.) I do not have to site anything to back up what I do for my employees, but you are welcome to call anytime and ask...of course - they would hang-up on you because there are better things to do - like WORK... I never claimed I was making no money, I said "I haven't taken one cent" and that further illustrates to me that you have no clue what the difference is. How do you know whether or not I worked hard and saved for years to open my own business? How do you know whether or not I have spent most or all of my life's savings to run my business? Maybe I have a spouse who works and earns a decent salary and helps carry me through? Maybe I'm a Multi-Millionaire (God forbid) and I'm just doing all of this for the fun of it? ? My mortgage - my business...Why do you assume I even have one??? Some people don't have mortgages...Oh my God...and they own their own houses - is it possible they did that on their own? Is it WATERFRONT??? If you want to debate the issues of health insurance reform, let's do that. I never said (and do not believe I implied) that I have any answers to the problem. I offered my thoughts and opinions on the subject matter and you act as if you would rather be in Pittsburgh at the moment... I think I have been very open and "transparent" about how and why I feel the way I do and that's generally the way it works around here. You have still offered nothing of substance and continue to bait me. I'm sorry I allowed myself to engage with you because nothing will ever be accomplished this way.
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 27, 2009 0:21:13 GMT -4
Then maybe it's time for you to NOT offer health insurance as an employer and deal with the workers who are interested in working for you. As for your question regarding employees that get sick while employed by you, other than the moral issues, why wouldn't a Government option not be a welcome solution? If the Marines can claim not responsible, why not employers? I haven't mastered the ability to quote just one line, but I will tell you this: As a Former United States Marine, I would have a hard time "claiming responsibility" for you. I probably would, but it would be difficult. You should move. Far away.
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 27, 2009 0:21:30 GMT -4
I never claimed I was making no money, I said "I haven't taken one cent" and that further illustrates to me that you have no clue what the difference is. So please. Educate me. How can you claim that you have not taken one red cent and be making money at the same time? You have a Sugar Daddy paying your bills? Bottom line. People NEED health care insurance. They need it if they are working, they need it if they are not, for whatever reason, because ultimately, we will pay for it. Prevention is cheaper than dealing with it once the conditions get more serious, and that's where we need to get to in order to not only improve the life of our citizens and to keep the costs as low as possible.
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 27, 2009 0:25:50 GMT -4
As a Former United States Marine, I would have a hard time "claiming responsibility" for you. I probably would, but it would be difficult. You should move. Far away. Why would I expect you to? Marines don't want to claim responsibility for their own... www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/24/marines.breast.cancer/index.htmlNow why would you want to publicly post a personal attack? Seriously. That's not cool and only shows your frustration at not being able to mount a defensible argument.
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 27, 2009 0:37:03 GMT -4
I never claimed I was making no money, I said "I haven't taken one cent" and that further illustrates to me that you have no clue what the difference is. So please. Educate me. How can you claim that you have not taken one red cent and be making money at the same time? You have a Sugar Daddy paying your bills? Bottom line. People NEED health care insurance. They need it if they are working, they need it if they are not, for whatever reason, because ultimately, we will pay for it. Prevention is cheaper than dealing with it once the conditions get more serious, and that's where we need to get to in order to not only improve the life of our citizens and to keep the costs as low as possible. It's called "Breaking Even"
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Post by Water Lady on Sept 27, 2009 0:42:16 GMT -4
As a Former United States Marine, I would have a hard time "claiming responsibility" for you. I probably would, but it would be difficult. You should move. Far away. Why would I expect you to? Marines don't want to claim responsibility for their own... www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/24/marines.breast.cancer/index.htmlNow why would you want to publicly post a personal attack? Seriously. That's not cool and only shows your frustration at not being able to mount a defensible argument. I was a United States Marine - I doubt you were or could have been... We always take care of our own... Don't ask questions you are not prepared to hear answers to... I've done my part and continue to do so. I did not post a personal attack against you or anyone else. Maybe you just feel that way because you have yet to reach your potential. This is useless -
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Post by truthhurts on Sept 27, 2009 0:47:39 GMT -4
As a Former United States Marine, I would have a hard time "claiming responsibility" for you. I probably would, but it would be difficult. You should move. Far away. That's not an attack? You didn't offer the names of companies that will insure individuals cheaper than group plans when asked. You claimed you were starving as a business owner, then said you were making money, then you offered a personal attack when called on it. Yes. You're right on your last post. It is useless.
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Post by hale80 on Sept 27, 2009 1:43:39 GMT -4
wl - I think you get the points here but you need to give it up. This guy is out of it and I would not go out for him if my life depended on it.
You don't alway have to answer your point to make your point right.
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Post by bchevy on Sept 27, 2009 7:46:26 GMT -4
ANyone see Michael Moron on the interview circuit?
Begging Obama to eliminate the health insurance comanpies because they are a middle man that runs up the cost.... He wants the public option to eliminate this. What does he think the gov't option will be?
Just another middle man, if not with profits it will be with red tape and overhead
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Post by hisea on Sept 28, 2009 5:54:33 GMT -4
Obamas health care plans will only cause the deficit to grow larger and we can't afford to keep paying for all of his radical left wing agenda!
We all know that this collapse of the economy was caused by the passing of jimmy carters community reinvestment act of 1977 and billy clinton's (first black president) reform of the CRA in 1995 that forced banks to loan money to people for homes who had no means to pay it back. So now you want the left to destroy health care? Smart move!
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Post by kl on Sept 28, 2009 8:40:31 GMT -4
Total Cost of Wars Since 2001 $914,399,838,819
Cost of War in Iraq $686,528,045,375
Cost of War in Afghanistan $227,871,793,443
And of course these have nothing to do with the deficit? Deep Sea, could you please tell us what Bush was doing then during the 8 years that he was in office? To prevent this recession, as well as the economic crash?
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Post by hale80 on Sept 28, 2009 22:48:08 GMT -4
ANyone see Michael Moron on the interview circuit? Begging Obama to eliminate the health insurance comanpies because they are a middle man that runs up the cost.... He wants the public option to eliminate this. What does he think the gov't option will be? Just another middle man, if not with profits it will be with red tape and overhead Saw about 30 seconds -almost threw the remote at the TV! Bright Guy huh?
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Post by misternuke on Sept 28, 2009 23:22:43 GMT -4
Cost of War in Iraq $686,528,045,375 Cost of War in Afghanistan $227,871,793,443 And of course these have nothing to do with the deficit? A pittance compared to the structural debt our Dear Leader has added to the national debt in the nine short months since taking office.... At least that money liberated a nation and held our enemies at bay instead of distributing payola grants to artists to come up with catchy posters for 'the cause' and subsidies to bottom-feeders in the business of dispensing helpful business advice to would-be purveyors of child rape.
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