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Post by hisea on Sept 26, 2009 9:36:52 GMT -4
correction, Settle back and have another glass of kool-aid.
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Post by hale80 on Sept 27, 2009 1:57:12 GMT -4
correction, Settle back and have another glass of kool-aid. Confused - which hand is holdong the glass of kool-aid (whine) the right or the left? As in - you want some cheese with that wine??? (Just a joke - no target)
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Post by stephadele on Oct 15, 2009 20:16:44 GMT -4
Liberals only get upset at tea parties when they see Republicans being whined and dined and suckered and basically fooled by corporate welfare healthcare lobbyists into thinking that a fox in the henhouse will stay away from the eggs...Glaxo Smith Klein and Kaiser will continue to rob them blind as long as they believe the party line mantra that any business, not matter how corrupt and wasteful, is better than any govt. program.. As their premiums continue to skyrocket and their care eroded every year....
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Post by moosie on Oct 15, 2009 21:57:37 GMT -4
wined, not whined! although that's pretty funny! ;-)
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Post by stephadele on Oct 16, 2009 9:23:17 GMT -4
The mispelling of that was intentional on my part
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Post by eileen on Oct 16, 2009 9:39:04 GMT -4
Liberals only get upset at tea parties when they see Republicans being whined and dined and suckered and basically fooled by corporate welfare healthcare lobbyists into thinking that a fox in the henhouse will stay away from the eggs...Glaxo Smith Klein and Kaiser will continue to rob them blind as long as they believe the party line mantra that any business, not matter how corrupt and wasteful, is better than any govt. program.. As their premiums continue to skyrocket and their care eroded every year.... Wined and dined by healthcare lobbyists? What are you talking about? Did you attend any of these tea parties? The great majority of people attending/participating in these are not the types that consort with healthcare lobbyists or lobbyists of any kind. They are fed up with being "robbed blind" by the US government. They are fed up with our newly elected President who promised transparency in his administration, yet there are closed door sessions going on debating the healthcare issue. They are fed up with our newly elected President who promised the American public they would have 5 days to review all major legislation, yet he is aggressively pusing/rushing major legislation through with absolutely no publice review period. They are fed up with our newly elected President who promised to remove all lobbyists from the White House, yet he has hired/appointed over 60 of them to serve his administration. They are fed up with stimulus plans, TARP plans, etc. that promised jobs, mortgage assistance, etc. but does not seem to have helped anyone. Many liberals seem to assume that all Republicans are immune to layoffs, foreclosures, etc. and are simply tyring to make profit off the backs of others. NOT TRUE. The majority of the American public will express themselves the way they know best - the 2010 elections.
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Post by moosie on Oct 16, 2009 11:23:05 GMT -4
The mispelling of that was intentional on my part hard to tell sometimes on this site. i'm basically on your side on your postings, you may have noticed, so no need for the ugly face.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 16, 2009 15:25:57 GMT -4
Well, Eileen, I did attend one of those lovely tea parties and what people were saying who were against single payer health plan was just that: That they thought corporate welfare managed care just needed to be "tweaked" ,not gotten rid of and any govt. program would waste more money than private businesses controlling healthcare....That is false....They obviously didnt do their homework and read up on single payer health plans nor do they seem to be aware of where their premium money is going when they write that check for BCBS or Kaiser or Pfizer...They dont seem to mind being robbed by private health insurance companies because they didnt say much about getting rid of them..That is the problem...I dont think they realize there is a fox in the henhouse... This is exackly what the healthcare lobbyists for those managed care companies are saying and are falsely scaring people about...misinformation. It was brainwashing and manipulation if I ever heard it. Obama needs to get tougher on managed care corporate welfare and have a tier of affordable, single payer healthcare that gets rid of privatized care for all......If people want privatized care and want to continue to pay for free lunches for healthcare providers while their care gets eroded, , they can pay for it themselves, but managed care shouldnt have a monopoly on all care that bankrupts people and forces others to choose between food, rent and medicine. I know more than a few therapists who would like to have paid vacations and paid sick leave, JUST like they used to before managed care took over healthcare....Having those things makes them better and more efficient healthcare providers.....How do you expert them to take care of clients when they cant even get the care they need?....You cant scrape an empty barrel here and expect to get something for nothing....That change wont happen as long as managed care monopolizes healthcare.....But alot of people at the meeting werent really understanding this and think all managed care needs is "corrections " here and there....Thats a drop in the bucket....The whole system needs to be shelved....Watching people get duped like that is frustrating.
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Post by eileen on Oct 17, 2009 10:05:34 GMT -4
OK "corporate welfare managed care" "managed care corporate welfare" Not sure what you mean by that, but obviously we are polar opposites as far as our view of the world is concerned. Not going to argue further with you on this -- you are obviously on the side of those who want a "global society", "redistribution of wealth" , etc. Not on board with any of that. Cant resist, are there huge numbers of therapists out there who need a vacation or sick day??
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Post by stephadele on Oct 17, 2009 12:35:35 GMT -4
Eileen..Corporate managed care is Blue Cross Blue Shield, Kaiser, Pfizer, ect...all the healthcare corporate giants it sounds like you insist on financially supporting.....I have to admit that sounds crazy to me knowing what I do about it....My health insurance premiums are high enough without me paying for more and getting less....while their salaries and profits increase. Most therapists I worked with were underpaid, overstressed and overworked...and they went to work sick on top of that lest they lose a days pay. When my father died, my mother had to pay me for back wages I would lose not working while I attended his funeral and wake...Otherwise I would have been forced to either attend my father's funeral and not get paid 3 days or miss it and continue working....What kind of therapist would I have been missing my own father's funeral while listening to someone else attend their father's funeral???.......Would you expect me to be at my best listening to people while grieving 8 hours after he died and not being given any paid time off to attend his funeral?....People need to be aware this stuff happens to us all the time.....People want professional healthcare workers alert yet they dont support or are not aware of what we need to ensure that it happens...It really grates on you after a while......No working person should be forced to make that decision, especially a healthcare provider who is supposed to be helping others...Which is why managed care needs to go and seeing you support that just makes me sad, shaking my head I dont know why youd want to see a healthcare professional working under those conditions but I sure wouldnt. Longer waits for appointments, less experienced providers available (I was booked for 8 weeks in advance or more when I was working), your confidentiality compromised, less appointments available to you when its not deemed "medically neccessary", thats the reality of contining to fund managed care. I doubt youd be on the other side of this with if you saw what I did. Just be careful of what you ask for and be aware that looks are deceiving when you dont know the whole situation.
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Post by eileen on Oct 17, 2009 15:21:31 GMT -4
Eileen..Corporate managed care is Blue Cross Blue Shield, Kaiser, Pfizer, ect...all the healthcare corporate giants it sounds like you insist on financially supporting.....I have to admit that sounds crazy to me knowing what I do about it....My health insurance premiums are high enough without me paying for more and getting less....while their salaries and profits increase. Most therapists I worked with were underpaid, overstressed and overworked...and they went to work sick on top of that lest they lose a days pay. When my father died, my mother had to pay me for back wages I would lose not working while I attended his funeral and wake...Otherwise I would have been forced to either attend my father's funeral and not get paid 3 days or miss it and continue working....What kind of therapist would I have been missing my own father's funeral while listening to someone else attend their father's funeral???.......Would you expect me to be at my best listening to people while grieving 8 hours after he died and not being given any paid time off to attend his funeral?....People need to be aware this stuff happens to us all the time.....People want professional healthcare workers alert yet they dont support or are not aware of what we need to ensure that it happens...It really grates on you after a while......No working person should be forced to make that decision, especially a healthcare provider who is supposed to be helping others...Which is why managed care needs to go and seeing you support that just makes me sad, shaking my head I dont know why youd want to see a healthcare professional working under those conditions but I sure wouldnt. Longer waits for appointments, less experienced providers available (I was booked for 8 weeks in advance or more when I was working), your confidentiality compromised, less appointments available to you when its not deemed "medically neccessary", thats the reality of contining to fund managed care. I doubt youd be on the other side of this with if you saw what I did. Just be careful of what you ask for and be aware that looks are deceiving when you dont know the whole situation. I'm speechless. What kind of therapist are you?
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 17, 2009 15:23:56 GMT -4
Eileen..Corporate managed care is Blue Cross Blue Shield, Kaiser, Pfizer, ect...all the healthcare corporate giants it sounds like you insist on financially supporting.....I have to admit that sounds crazy to me knowing what I do about it....My health insurance premiums are high enough without me paying for more and getting less....while their salaries and profits increase. Most therapists I worked with were underpaid, overstressed and overworked...and they went to work sick on top of that lest they lose a days pay. When my father died, my mother had to pay me for back wages I would lose not working while I attended his funeral and wake...Otherwise I would have been forced to either attend my father's funeral and not get paid 3 days or miss it and continue working....What kind of therapist would I have been missing my own father's funeral while listening to someone else attend their father's funeral???.......Would you expect me to be at my best listening to people while grieving 8 hours after he died and not being given any paid time off to attend his funeral?....People need to be aware this stuff happens to us all the time.....People want professional healthcare workers alert yet they dont support or are not aware of what we need to ensure that it happens...It really grates on you after a while......No working person should be forced to make that decision, especially a healthcare provider who is supposed to be helping others...Which is why managed care needs to go and seeing you support that just makes me sad, shaking my head I dont know why youd want to see a healthcare professional working under those conditions but I sure wouldnt. Longer waits for appointments, less experienced providers available (I was booked for 8 weeks in advance or more when I was working), your confidentiality compromised, less appointments available to you when its not deemed "medically neccessary", thats the reality of contining to fund managed care. I doubt youd be on the other side of this with if you saw what I did. Just be careful of what you ask for and be aware that looks are deceiving when you dont know the whole situation. I'm speechless. What kind of therapist are you? One that has retired.
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 17, 2009 15:37:20 GMT -4
If the definition of managed care is simply the collection of health insurance companies we have today, I'll take it. I have never had a problem seeing a doctor. I have never had the insurance company deny any of my claims. I have never visited a doctor's office or hospital that did not have a few high-end automobiles out front.
The ratio of dollars spent to services received, for me, is higher for car and home insurance than health insurance. The health insurance industry might have problems, but it isn't the worst.
I have far more concerns about the ability of the Federal Govt. to spend money wisely.
I would have far more concerns about the availability of doctors if the there was no competition for their business. If the doctor's choice was to work for the single-payer Govt. program or not work at all, they might just find another profession.
Who should pay your salary for the hours you are on vacation? The company I work for pays for my vacation then passes that along to its customers. When I was in the role of independent consultant, I paid for my own time off out of the money I earned while not on vacation. If what you are saying is you are effectively an independent consultant and don't make enough to take time off then perhaps a change of occupation is in order?
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 17, 2009 15:44:42 GMT -4
The government runs the Post Office, Medicare, and Social Security and all three have major problems.
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Post by RobMoore on Oct 17, 2009 23:06:12 GMT -4
I think the list would be a lot shorter if we named the programs they run correctly.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 17, 2009 23:21:11 GMT -4
Falgar...If I had a salary, they would have paid for sick leave and vacation time...But I worked as a fee for service therapist (mental health).....It wasnt salaried...Very few positions in mental health are salaried....Managed care ended that by the mid 90s....If a client doesnt show up, we dont get paid...If you have 4 intakes (new clients you have never seen before ) coming in and none show up, you dont get paid for those 4 hours you scheduled them... At 30 dollars an hour per client, its alot of money to lose.....And no shows for intakes happen frequently....It can take a long time to build up a caseload of clients to full time. You are correct that most leave when they dont make enough money per hour, hence the shortages of experienced workers....Its only starting to dawn on people now as they realize they can get appointments for only 8 weeks or more in advance...2 months is a long time to wait for an appointment when a parent has a suicidal teenager who's starting fires in their house or cutting their wrists.... Thats one of many reasons why I left the field but the most pressing one was watching managed care deny healthcare to people who really needed it, such as the elderly and mentally ill, and short change care for the rest while they gave themselves raises and full benefits for all their workers and gave me unwanted pens and clocks and free lunches I never asked for...Its an inhumane system, hugely wasteful, that I choose not to work in.. There are many problems within the health insurance industry that only someone who works inside the system would know about. You are similar to much of the public who doesnt see anything wrong going on because they arent privy to whats happening on the inside.. But keeping the public unaware of how they operate is why managed care has lasted as long as they have.
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Post by eileen on Oct 18, 2009 11:03:03 GMT -4
Falgar...If I had a salary, they would have paid for sick leave and vacation time...But I worked as a fee for service therapist (mental health).....It wasnt salaried...Very few positions in mental health are salaried....Managed care ended that by the mid 90s....If a client doesnt show up, we dont get paid...If you have 4 intakes (new clients you have never seen before ) coming in and none show up, you dont get paid for those 4 hours you scheduled them... At 30 dollars an hour per client, its alot of money to lose.....And no shows for intakes happen frequently....It can take a long time to build up a caseload of clients to full time. You are correct that most leave when they dont make enough money per hour, hence the shortages of experienced workers....Its only starting to dawn on people now as they realize they can get appointments for only 8 weeks or more in advance...2 months is a long time to wait for an appointment when a parent has a suicidal teenager who's starting fires in their house or cutting their wrists.... Thats one of many reasons why I left the field but the most pressing one was watching managed care deny healthcare to people who really needed it, such as the elderly and mentally ill, and short change care for the rest while they gave themselves raises and full benefits for all their workers and gave me unwanted pens and clocks and free lunches I never asked for...Its an inhumane system, hugely wasteful, that I choose not to work in.. There are many problems within the health insurance industry that only someone who works inside the system would know about. You are similar to much of the public who doesnt see anything wrong going on because they arent privy to whats happening on the inside.. But keeping the public unaware of how they operate is why managed care has lasted as long as they have. Your thoughts on insurance companies are: "keeping the public unaware of how they operate" and "only someone who works inside the system would know.." You want the US Government to run healthcare? Keeping the aforementioned quotes in mind - no one is better at NOT informing its citizens of what it's up to better than our government. I get chills down my spine thinking about them running our healthcare system. Faults or not, I'll take BCBS or the rest of them over the government.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 18, 2009 18:06:10 GMT -4
Eileen...Govt healthcare programs are monitored and audited regularly to make sure they do what they say they are doing. Any that dont are axed at some point.....I watched while susbtance abuse program funding where I worked years ago was partially axed because the new politician in office wanted to get tough on crime...Never mind that doing that only created new problems because people then had fewer resources and places to go to get sober..resulting in increased addictions and increased social problems like domestic violence and juvenile truancy.....So at least, while not perfect by any means, there is some monitoring of govt. healthcare programs. And example of this is Medicare and Medicaid.....There is regular monitoring of both programs...But the Medicaid/Medicare paperwork for healthcare providers is surprisingly much less than managed care companies...It was common to have to fill out regularly (every 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 week internal) forms that took 15 minutes or more during clients sessions.....Clients ,of course, have to lose appointment time they have paid for in order to complete paperpusher work for managed care......Every time u turn out around, you are asking clients to fill out forms for managed care in order to authorize more sessions.....Not so with Medicare/Medicaid....I usually only completed one form every 6 to 12 months for each client and it took about 10 minutes to complete.....Very easy to do and the client often didnt need to be there wasting their precious session time.....So easy that grad students can complete it with ease......So less waste, more monitoring on the part of govt. healthcare programs means better efficiency and less beaurocracy and less time wasted in sessions that the client is robbed of.
Not so with managed care companies such as Blue Cross Blue Shield....They are allowed to waste money of consumers and increase their premiums unchecked and unmonitored..As stated before, it was a requirement to fill out forms every 2, 3 or 4 or 5 weeks or sessions would not be authorized...Sometimes you had to call them for more sessions...This meant being on hold on the phone for sometimes 15 minutes or more...Thats not fair to clients sitting there waiting every 4th session or so while you try to authorize sessions for them via the phone.....There were also times when managed care companies like BCBS refused more sessions or messed up on client accounts and clients were forced to leave the office without a session.......Never mind that the clients were in good standing with their payments to the insurance companies.......There are no outside watchdog consumer groups who are legally allowed to hold them accountable for their promise not to cheat the public with premium increases and waste money and keep their lobbyists away from the money pit.....Id much rather have a monitored, audited govt healthcare program than an unchecked, unmonitored managed care company with the unlimited ability to make a profit at my expense...Untrained paperpushers making healthcare decisions leads to medical mistakes...which leads to more serious healthcare problems of the public ....Wasted money is wasted money regardless of whether it comes from the govt. or a private managed care company churning out free expensive lunches and clocks and pens and mugs and wine to doctors while they allow untrained people to make unethical decisions that cost them big bucks later on........Id rather at least have my source of it be monitored and regulated.....I dont need to keep paying for the 3rd vacation homes of BCBS CEOs while my premiums increase and my care decreases....Corporate welfare at its worst..
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Post by eileen on Oct 18, 2009 18:35:33 GMT -4
"Government health care programs are monitored and audited regularly" If that statement were true (don't believe it for a second) -- how is it then that President Obama states that he plans to pay for a good portion of health care reform by getting rid of fraud and waste that presently exists in Medicare/Medicaid??? To the tune of $600Billion dollars???
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Post by stephadele on Oct 18, 2009 18:47:08 GMT -4
Obama certainly has his work cut out for him regarding Medicare and Medicaid overhaul but I think the bigger problem is the private healthcare system in terms of waste and my alarm that it is conveniently being overlooked and misplaced onto the govt. as the scapegoat...The very fact that we are more knowledgable and vocal about what needs to be fixed and revamped with govt. programs and the public is largely ignorant, kept in the dark and thus silent on fixing privatized managed health care speaks VOLUMES.....That shows right there that some monitoring and information is available to the public to critique and change with govt. healthcare....That is a good thing and it ALSO needs to happen with privatized healthcare so people are just as vocal about managed care as they are about govt. healthcare programs. Managed care wastes billions of dollars for decades thru poor management, fraud and waste and profits driving up costs and everyone seems to look the other way..Why?...When is this going to stop?...Until everyone is bankrupt from it and, like Enron, they are brought to court and indicted?
Regarding auditing of heathcare programs, I can tell you that it happens regularly with many healthcare programs,,,, I helped write grants for a substance abuse program every two years ina a previous job......If that wasnt submitted in a timely fashion, the program would be axed...In the grant, we had to justify why the program should be continuing and provide stats of people completing the program and the measured success of the program in client symptoms...Can you imagine forcing BCBS to do that to justify their existence???
I also had to monitor and assist with grant writing for a local municipal youth and family services program in Mass..Every 2 years we had to to to a town hall meeting and justify our existence with stats and measurement of success with our programs...The taxpaying public was free to question us and they would vote on the continuation of the program... So auditing and monitoring is very common with alot of govt. healthcare programs...from local municipal areas to larger state and federal programs..
Again, can you imagine BCBS coming to a town hall meeting every 2 years and justifying their existence?....Fat chance...With everyone under the illusion that any business is a sound one over govt. programs.....They remained unmonitored and unchecked so they are free to milk the public without consequences for their actions...
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 18, 2009 18:55:17 GMT -4
Tort reform would be a good place to start.
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 18, 2009 19:06:29 GMT -4
Obama certainly has his work cut out for him regarding Medicare and Medicaid overhaul but I think the bigger problem is the private healthcare system in terms of waste..... And if I said "the price of gas is going up" would that also be the fault of the private healthcare system?
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 18, 2009 19:20:00 GMT -4
Again, can you imagine BCBS coming to a town hall meeting every 2 years and justifying their existence?....Fat chance...With everyone under the illusion that any business is a sound one over govt. programs.....They remained unmonitored and unchecked so they are free to milk the public without consequences for their actions... The difference is, with BCBS or any of the other "managed healthcare corporate giants" or whatever else you want to name them, I am spending my money to receive a service for me. I have a choice and I have some control While I don't audit those companies I can decide yearly whether I want to continue giving my money to them. If BCBS prices itself out of my reach, there are others I can choose. When they all price themselves out of my reach I'll simply pay for my healthcare directly. With a Govt-run, single payer system I have no control at all. There is no competition to keep the prices in check. From what I've read, most of the current proposals do not allow me to opt out of the program. And worst of all, the Govt. will fund that program by taking whatever money it needs out of my paycheck whether I agree or not. From what you've written I get the idea that you don't like the corporate giants because they have cut what they are willing to pay for your services. You could choose to not participate in the plans but you run the risk of consumers/patients not choosing to pay you what you feel you are worth. What I note about this is you have a choice. If you think the anti-trust exemption enjoyed by the managed care corporate giants is hard on your rates, imagine what the Govt. is going to do to you during an election year when it becomes politically unpopular to raise taxes to fund higher rates for healthcare providers. Which patient puts more money in your pocket now, a BCBS patient or a Medicare patient?
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 18, 2009 19:27:00 GMT -4
What I don't understand is why can a doctor accept a certain amount to be paid for a certain service by a certain insurance company but if someone has to pay out of pocket, they are not charged the same reduced rate. I think that is not fair and it does not make sense.
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 18, 2009 19:34:54 GMT -4
What I don't understand is why can a doctor accept a certain amount to be paid for a certain service by a certain insurance company but if someone has to pay out of pocket, they are not charged the same reduced rate. I think that is not fair and it does not make sense. The service has a certain cost and ideally, everyone would pay the same. The big insurance companies are very good at signing up people to their healthcare plans. These insurance companies then go to the Dr.s and offer to make them part of the network if they will accept a certain payment for their services. The Dr.s can stand on principle and decline but they risk losing business since the patients with the insurance company will stick with the in-network providers. So the Dr. accepts a lower payment for the privilege of being part of the network and the possibility of getting patients through the insurance company. However, since they agreed to reduce what they would accept from the insurance company they need to make up the money in other ways. Charging those willing or forced to pay directly a price above what the service really costs is one way of recoup'ing the losses they incur for in-network services.
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