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Post by funnel101 on May 7, 2010 14:23:35 GMT -4
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Post by speedergurl68 on May 7, 2010 16:49:46 GMT -4
Personally, I think there should be a #11: Making lists about how other Christians fail at being Christians.
But then...that's just me. I never liked the "list" thing.
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Post by Water Lady on May 7, 2010 19:06:58 GMT -4
As soon as I saw it came from the Huffington Post (which I like to think of as the Huffing & Puffing Post... : I knew I shouldn't even read the list... But I did - SG...Agree. Don't much like the list thing to begin with. And, just because someone begins every sentence with "we Christians..." does not mean he is speaking for any of us OR that he is "one" of us... I'm sorry I even bothered. ;D
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Post by funnel101 on May 7, 2010 20:28:18 GMT -4
Well, the #1 on the list has always bothered me, and is one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. (How many hungry people could be fed with the wealth of Vatican City?)
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Post by Water Lady on May 7, 2010 23:30:52 GMT -4
Well, the #1 on the list has always bothered me, and is one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. (How many hungry people could be fed with the wealth of Vatican City?) Well Funnel, I have wondered about that same thing from time to time. I have traveled to a lot of places around the world and been privileged to see some amazing things in my travels - including the vast wealth of the Catholic Church. What that has to do with anything though...I am not sure??? The person you sited as the Author of the article on "Huffington Post" made it clear through his "quotes" that the Bible says (Jesus says) the people should give up their wealth... Perhaps these verses are directed to those who would try or attempt to maintain their wealth instead of using their wealth to benefit or help others...Do remember that Jesus also said there will always be "the poor" and I believe without the poor, there is no way for the rich (or simply those with something other than "nothing") to have a charitable ability to affect Christian giving. I can engage in a rational debate about how the "wealthy" Christians in this world (mainly in this country) contribute to the less fortunate among us. Further, I can tell a few stories about my extended family - who have GIVEN AND GIVEN beyond your wildest "expectations" to those with little or nothing. These people I speak of are my parents, grand parents and great-granpatrents...all true Christians, mostly Lutheran, but some Baptist and Methodist...and others still. If you do a small amount of research, you will find that people who have nothing can not help or assist other people who have nothing. If you are a person who has nothing or "little" perhaps you may feel that you (or they/we) have been wronged. When you hold your hand out for help, who is it that is there to place something in it?? Someone who "gave their wealth away?" Don't think so! I am not sure what you believe "we" as Christians should do or provide to you or "others" because we are Christians. I for one, have given more than I can count and don't need someone else to tally it up for me. I will face my God and answer for my decisions when the time comes. I do believe there is something to be said about people standing up for themselves and pulling their own weight. Lots of people find easy excuses for not being able to "do much of anything" for all sorts of reasons and expecting others to make exceptions - only to discover the person in question is perfectly capable of functioning quite nicely when there is any form of "wealth' to be gained for their own benefit... One can't be both...it's very simple. The poor will never take care of the poor... It's not an attack really - any more than your post. It's just a Christian thing and I choose not to re-write scripture. It get's harder and harder to swallow each day, those who question the dignity and charity and endless hard work of those of us who provide care and benefits and security for those who claim they can not contribute anything. Ultimately, these mind-sets begin to change my decisions about how I "GIVE" my money. I would prefer not to be questioned about my motives or beliefs or convictions. I am already reaching the point where I think it is rediculous that those who recieve my contributions question my motives and beliefs. When we stop giving, those who are complaining the loudest will be the first to suffer.
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Post by shorti on May 8, 2010 11:36:00 GMT -4
well... y'all shoulda known you'd get a response from me on this... so here's my thinking... 1. He quotes Scripture that where the rich, young, ruler says i've done this, this & that (all what he's supposed to do by the Law) and is asking Jesus what do i need to do? And Jesus tells him to give up his worldy possessions & give to the poor & follow Him. He also quotes parts about how money is the root of all evil/can't serve 2 masters... let me explain... If "we" as Christians are more concerned w/ our wallet & our money & our time, talents, etc than we are about serving & glorifying God, then we are missing the mark. God has given you everything - its all His, entrusted to you - if you are not a good steward of what He has given you then, you have a heart issue... Do you really trust that He is who He says He is? Here's a question... Do you believe that what you believe is really real? 2. I'd like to go further on his statement - I think that's where "Christians" miss the mark - assuming they are good on their own - when in fact, we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God and are all in need of a Savior - on our own, we cannot please God. 3. The Bible is relevant, alive & active. It's not as complex as folks would like to make it out to be... Nobody will understand unless He has given you the revelation & illumination to understand. and that comes w/ faith & belief in Him. can't have one without the other.. and without diligent study & time in the Bible, you won't understand the fullness of it. 4. I think he misses the point entirely here... i think yes - some - i call them the bullhorn people - will spend too much time "preaching" and not enough time acting and then say it's in the name of God... I think if you are truly a Biblical Christian you are commanded to be a part of the Great Commission - sharing the Good News... and if you don't, you are not being obedient.. but it's the how you share 5. I'm not really going to comment on this except that this country was founded to be free of religious persecution yet, the founding fathers were in fact, mostly Christians... this in itself could be a whole debate... 6. He's right to a point on this... no one can talk someone into being Christian... only God can do that... but we are to plant the seed - but see my point above about being the bull horn person... great quote... Preach always - use words when necessary... 7. I think we are not quick to abandon logic.. however personal experience of mine says, again to a point he is right... there are many that when faced with questions of the faith, on the Bible, Christ, etc.. they are quick to dismiss with "the Bible says so" or something along those lines... again - knowing Scripture is a key, but even those who don't know it to the extent a theologian or a pastor would is not necessary entirely - see quote above... what will make people notice or want to know more, etc... will be the fruit of a transformed life & the work of God in their hearts... 8. Again another topic that could be a debate in itself... but this is what gets me as a Christian... and one who admittedly would have agreed with this statement 4 years or so ago... When someone stands & claims to be a true, Biblical Christian & allows someone who is openly homosexual to lead, it's wrong... and tells me that they are not true Biblical Christians because if they truly believed that what they say they do, that would not happen because it is clear that this is a sin. But on the other hand - to bash and to be unloving towards those who are homosexual is just as much a sin... we are to love the person, not the sin... 9. this is true to a point... There are many Christians who don't hang out w/ others who are not Christians which is wrong. Honestly I have many friends who are Christians because they are my church family and I love them dearly, but I also have many who are not. Christ came for the "sick" not the "healthy". How are we to do what we are commanded (Share the Good News) if we don't come outside of our cocoon? Sadly many churches are like cliques... and very rarely venture outside of their walls. If Christ were here today, would he not be hanging out at places where "undesirable" people were in order to draw them to Him? 10. Again to a degree correct, but then again - we don't have to know it all & if someone wants to debate the Biblical accuracy, or whatever, the motives need to be right. Most people I've encountered (Heck I was one of them at one point) did it just to try to argue... but the point that most miss is that there is more than enough evidence to prove that the Bible is accurate and that what it says is true. But again, it's not what you "know" it's what you "show"... do you go to church on Sunday & then Monday thru saturday live a life that is no different than the rest of the world? Or has your life been so transformed that people take notice that there's something different? Again, a transformed life will speak more than lip service...
i agree w/ WL - I choose not to re-write Scripture... You can't pick & choose what in the Bible you are going to believe - it's all or nothing. It's not a buffet that you can have a little of this & none of that. About giving... if you are doing it as a duty or to get a pat on the back, your motives are not right. And when those motives are true & being questioned that's tough too... but it's got to be a "no strings attached" kind of thing.. We do things/give/etc to share a Christ-like love and in hopes to plant a seed - it's not to fill our church.... the church is the people - not the walls... church should be a verb, not a noun...
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Post by miriam on May 14, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -4
Well said shorti i agree w/ WL - I choose not to re-write Scripture... You can't pick & choose what in the Bible you are going to believe - it's all or nothing. It's not a buffet that you can have a little of this & none of that. About giving... if you are doing it as a duty or to get a pat on the back, your motives are not right. And when those motives are true & being questioned that's tough too... but it's got to be a "no strings attached" kind of thing.. We do things/give/etc to share a Christ-like love and in hopes to plant a seed - it's not to fill our church.... the church is the people - not the walls... church should be a verb, not a noun...
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Post by shorti on May 17, 2010 19:33:55 GMT -4
thanks but it's just what i believe & hold to as much as i can... i'm far from perfect though!
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Post by RobMoore on Jun 26, 2010 18:23:14 GMT -4
I'll save my non-christian comments for only #9.
This may be our fault as much as yours. Speaking only from personal experience, I tend to not want to be around Christians who don't "put it away" when I'm around them. I don't ask them to do "unchristian-like" things, but I also don't want their religion to enter into the conversation. It should be neutral territory. Don't bring up Jesus, and I won't bring up that his birthday is actually the stolen Pagan holiday of Yule.
So, I can see where Christians wouldn't want to be around people they have to "hide" their religion from (even though there are plenty of other religions who do keep it locked away, out of public view).
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