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Post by by by by on May 2, 2014 8:12:30 GMT -4
And how did those kids turn out?
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Post by burnerbill on May 2, 2014 9:44:17 GMT -4
When I lived in Anne Arundel County, I had to pay a fee to enter Downs Park in Pasadena, a county park, same for Quiet Waters in Annapolis. The fee was small. It is reduced for a county resident and more for non-residents, you can also purchase an annual pass. How is this different other than being "new" to QA residents?
On the flip side, I wonder, what if there was a proposal by the county to raise property taxes in order to restore services which had to be cut as a result of past budget cuts. IE - Park maintenance. Would we see a backlash against such a tax increase by some who would propose no property tax increases and instead charge a fee to users of the parks? d**ned if you do and d**ned if you don't.
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Post by barnaclebill on May 14, 2014 14:33:21 GMT -4
Looking to do the right thing, we purchased the beach permit today. I knew years ago we would eventually have to pay to walk at Terrapin Beach... this is Maryland. The vendor told us that scofflaws have already been ticketed because the authorities check the vendors' log to see when the permit was purchased. If so, then why do we have to pay for an annual permit good only until December 31? Why not a year? I understand timing the permit requirement for the warm weather, but creating a windfall with a so-called "annual fee" makes me feel like I'm being told its raining!
While I'm on it...exiting 895 after the toll booth and BEFORE the tunnel, having to pay the toll to exit onto Childs St. and returning on the Childs St. ramp through the toll plaza, again paying the toll...having never gone through the tunnel, well this is Chinatown Jake.
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Post by tankermate on Sept 13, 2014 14:12:20 GMT -4
Does anyone think the county would ever go for combining the beach permit with the boat landings permit? Pay one fee but get to use both types of facilities.
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Post by sharon on Sept 20, 2014 15:32:10 GMT -4
Does anyone think the county would ever go for combining the beach permit with the boat landings permit? Pay one fee but get to use both types of facilities. How would suggest the fee be regulated? What if I dont have a boat & just want to walk the trails at Terrapin. What if I have a boat but wouldnt use the trails? I wonder how the fee will affect those folks that just want to walk or bike the Cross Island Trail or the Matapeake Trail. Do I now have to pay to park at the overflow parking at Matapeake so I can bike that trail? Cross Island Trail isnt as bad yo can park at the deserted outlet ghost town & go from there to Terrapin & back. I see that at the Information Center on the Narrows there are 2 signs indicating permit parking only for Ferry Point. So if I park some where else in that same lot can I go out to Ferry Point without having a sticker> How can they enforce that? I also was told that in Jan when the new elected officials take over the permit situation will terminate. Any info from those that really know about these things regarding that?
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Post by frankf on Sept 20, 2014 16:00:15 GMT -4
I also was told that in Jan when the new elected officials take over the permit situation will terminate. Any info from those that really know about these things regarding that? Let's hope so. This double taxation, discriminatory regulation needs to go.
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Post by tankermate on Sept 20, 2014 17:08:29 GMT -4
It would be regulated the same way it is now but the $35 fee would be good for the beaches and boat ramps. Of course there are people that would only use one but there are some that would use both. The ways around the fee for the beaches would remain the same. Does anyone think the county would ever go for combining the beach permit with the boat landings permit? Pay one fee but get to use both types of facilities. How would suggest the fee be regulated? What if I dont have a boat & just want to walk the trails at Terrapin. What if I have a boat but wouldnt use the trails? I wonder how the fee will affect those folks that just want to walk or bike the Cross Island Trail or the Matapeake Trail. Do I now have to pay to park at the overflow parking at Matapeake so I can bike that trail? Cross Island Trail isnt as bad yo can park at the deserted outlet ghost town & go from there to Terrapin & back. I see that at the Information Center on the Narrows there are 2 signs indicating permit parking only for Ferry Point. So if I park some where else in that same lot can I go out to Ferry Point without having a sticker> How can they enforce that? I also was told that in Jan when the new elected officials take over the permit situation will terminate. Any info from those that really know about these things regarding that?
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Post by emsguru on Sept 20, 2014 19:21:17 GMT -4
It seems the people who leave the trash are the people who are fishing. Why not just make the beach a nature park and stop allowing fishing?
And if they do nix the fees. Will they fire the newly hired rangers? Will we have to rely on volunteers only to clean the beach? What if the nix the fee then keep the rangers. That means that the 120 grand will have to come out of another part of the budget.
As for double taxation. If I don't use Terrapin beach I'm not really being double taxed. But if they get rid of the fees and keep the rangers then my taxes are going to be increased or not dropped because you want the beach patrolled.
Who on this forum fishes at terrapin?
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Post by frankf on Sept 21, 2014 13:33:15 GMT -4
As for double taxation. If I don't use Terrapin beach I'm not really being double taxed. Not true. You're being taxed for public property that you can't use (without paying again).
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aerie
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by aerie on Sept 21, 2014 14:20:03 GMT -4
This is wrong on sooo many levels. We pay more tax in Maryland for so many things. This money will never go to our shorelines just like our bay bridge money doesn't go to the bay.
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Post by frankf on Sept 21, 2014 16:24:52 GMT -4
This is wrong on sooo many levels. We pay more tax in Maryland for so many things. This money will never go to our shorelines just like our bay bridge money doesn't go to the bay. Uh... Bay Bridge tolls aren't supposed to go towards the "Bay". They are to pay for maintenance of the bridge. Remember those deck replacements a couple years ago and the ongoing painting? I understand that the cost of painting them today is more than the cost to build the bridges.
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Post by bchevy on Sept 21, 2014 17:56:54 GMT -4
This is wrong on sooo many levels. We pay more tax in Maryland for so many things. This money will never go to our shorelines just like our bay bridge money doesn't go to the bay. Uh... Bay Bridge tolls aren't supposed to go towards the "Bay". They are to pay for maintenance of the bridge. Remember those deck replacements a couple years ago and the ongoing painting? I understand that the cost of painting them today is more than the cost to build the bridges. Actually the increase in tolls was justified by the ICC losing money, we are official paying for the ICC with BB tolls.....
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Post by ravens20 on Sept 21, 2014 18:40:42 GMT -4
It seems the people who leave the trash are the people who are fishing. Why not just make the beach a nature park and stop allowing fishing? And if they do nix the fees. Will they fire the newly hired rangers? Will we have to rely on volunteers only to clean the beach? What if the nix the fee then keep the rangers. That means that the 120 grand will have to come out of another part of the budget. As for double taxation. If I don't use Terrapin beach I'm not really being double taxed. But if they get rid of the fees and keep the rangers then my taxes are going to be increased or not dropped because you want the beach patrolled. Who on this forum fishes at terrapin? It's not double taxation, some people just don't understand what that term actually means. That's a good point about the fishing. I don't know anyone that fishes there. I like that idea.
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Post by ravens20 on Sept 21, 2014 18:53:24 GMT -4
As for double taxation. If I don't use Terrapin beach I'm not really being double taxed. Not true. You're being taxed for public property that you can't use (without paying again). You are not entitled to use public property simply because your tax dollars paid for it.
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Post by falgar25 on Sept 21, 2014 19:54:12 GMT -4
Not true. You're being taxed for public property that you can't use (without paying again). You are not entitled to use public property simply because your tax dollars paid for it. True, but when the County justifies its tax rate by pointing out the facilities it provides and then turns around and requires us to pay a fee for the same facilities, that deserves a complaint or two. It isn't being taxed double - only one is a tax, the other is a fee. The County might have learned that reasoning from the State.
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Post by Frank on Sept 22, 2014 8:35:53 GMT -4
Uh... Bay Bridge tolls aren't supposed to go towards the "Bay". They are to pay for maintenance of the bridge. Remember those deck replacements a couple years ago and the ongoing painting? I understand that the cost of painting them today is more than the cost to build the bridges. Actually the increase in tolls was justified by the ICC losing money, we are official paying for the ICC with BB tolls..... True. The BB is actually a huge money maker. It generated close to $8,000,000 in surplus after the maintenance costs of the bridge for many years. God knows how much they are making after the price increase. Now we're just getting raped. The idea is it supports other projects within MD, particularly the ICC. Yeah, it sucks, but when they decide to build a new bay crossing, tolls from other facilities would help fund the project because the BB tolls would never actually cover the construction costs of a new bridge. It sounds good in theory, but people who have to cross the bridge everyday for work such as myself, seem to bear a large part of the costs. On the flip side though, Martin Owe'Malley said he will not even consider another bay crossing as long as he has any influence. So we just continue to bear the increase without any possibility of relief in sight.
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Post by frankf on Sept 22, 2014 8:57:38 GMT -4
It's not double taxation, some people just don't understand what that term actually means. You can call it a fee, you can call it a tax. The place is a PUBLIC PARK which we paid for once. We're now being forced to pay an additional fee/tax in order to use it. At the end of the day it's all the same.
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Post by ravens20 on Sept 22, 2014 20:40:51 GMT -4
It's not double taxation, some people just don't understand what that term actually means. You can call it a fee, you can call it a tax. The place is a PUBLIC PARK which we paid for once. We're now being forced to pay an additional fee/tax in order to use it. At the end of the day it's all the same. No, it's not the same, and it's done all the time. If you want increased services, you have to pay for it. They don't have the money to provide what the public wants, so they add a fee to use the parks. It's either that or they raise taxes, at least in this instance only the people that use the parks pay for it. "Double Taxation" has a specific meaning, you can keep using it incorrectly if you'd like but it makes it look like you don't actually understand the definition of the words. This is no different than a bridge toll, parking meters, paying a fee each time you go to Sandy Point, paying a fee each time you go to Quiet Waters, etc... I'm still on the fence about this. If they actually do hire park rangers and conditions improve I will fully support the fee.
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Post by frankf on Sept 22, 2014 21:09:18 GMT -4
You can call it a fee, you can call it a tax. The place is a PUBLIC PARK which we paid for once. We're now being forced to pay an additional fee/tax in order to use it. At the end of the day it's all the same. No, it's not the same, and it's done all the time. If you want increased services, you have to pay for it. They don't have the money to provide what the public wants, so they add a fee to use the parks. It's either that or they raise taxes, at least in this instance only the people that use the parks pay for it. "Double Taxation" has a specific meaning, you can keep using it incorrectly if you'd like but it makes it look like you don't actually understand the definition of the words. This is no different than a bridge toll, parking meters, paying a fee each time you go to Sandy Point, paying a fee each time you go to Quiet Waters, etc... I'm still on the fence about this. If they actually do hire park rangers and conditions improve I will fully support the fee. Now if we really get down to brass tacks, this is a discriminatory fee. It was meant to run out the Hispanics fishing at the park rather than enforcing existing littering laws, something which should have been covered by existing taxes which we all pay. As for the "double taxation" definition which you seem to not understand, we have paid for our "right" to use the park through property taxes that were SUPPOSED to be supporting the parks and in reality haven't been, they have seriously degraded within the past 10 years. Adding a "parking fee" won't change a thing, and there will be no park rangers hired. Won't happen. In the meantime, I'll either walk in, or go to parks like Eastern Neck or others. QA County can pack sand on their beach fees.
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Post by tankermate on Sept 22, 2014 21:22:14 GMT -4
No, it's not the same, and it's done all the time. If you want increased services, you have to pay for it. They don't have the money to provide what the public wants, so they add a fee to use the parks. It's either that or they raise taxes, at least in this instance only the people that use the parks pay for it. "Double Taxation" has a specific meaning, you can keep using it incorrectly if you'd like but it makes it look like you don't actually understand the definition of the words. This is no different than a bridge toll, parking meters, paying a fee each time you go to Sandy Point, paying a fee each time you go to Quiet Waters, etc... I'm still on the fence about this. If they actually do hire park rangers and conditions improve I will fully support the fee. Now if we really get down to brass tacks, this is a discriminatory fee. It was meant to run out the Hispanics fishing at the park rather than enforcing existing littering laws, something which should have been covered by existing taxes which we all pay. As for the "double taxation" definition which you seem to not understand, we have paid for our "right" to use the park through property taxes that were SUPPOSED to be supporting the parks and in reality haven't been, they have seriously degraded within the past 10 years. Adding a "parking fee" won't change a thing, and there will be no park rangers hired. Won't happen. In the meantime, I'll either walk in, or go to parks like Eastern Neck or others. QA County can pack sand on their beach fees. There are rangers checking permits. I saw one at Terrapin today and Matapeake a few weeks ago.
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Post by emsguru on Sept 22, 2014 22:43:06 GMT -4
No, it's not the same, and it's done all the time. If you want increased services, you have to pay for it. They don't have the money to provide what the public wants, so they add a fee to use the parks. It's either that or they raise taxes, at least in this instance only the people that use the parks pay for it. "Double Taxation" has a specific meaning, you can keep using it incorrectly if you'd like but it makes it look like you don't actually understand the definition of the words. This is no different than a bridge toll, parking meters, paying a fee each time you go to Sandy Point, paying a fee each time you go to Quiet Waters, etc... I'm still on the fence about this. If they actually do hire park rangers and conditions improve I will fully support the fee. Now if we really get down to brass tacks, this is a discriminatory fee. It was meant to run out the Hispanics fishing at the park rather than enforcing existing littering laws, something which should have been covered by existing taxes which we all pay. As for the "double taxation" definition which you seem to not understand, we have paid for our "right" to use the park through property taxes that were SUPPOSED to be supporting the parks and in reality haven't been, they have seriously degraded within the past 10 years. Adding a "parking fee" won't change a thing, and there will be no park rangers hired. Won't happen. In the meantime, I'll either walk in, or go to parks like Eastern Neck or others. QA County can pack sand on their beach fees. Who do they get to enforce the littering? Do you think if a deputy was standing there in uniform they will throw a dirty diaper into the grass right in front of him? I highly doubt it. But if you have a deputy there what part of the county loses their police officer coverage? If they hire that officer on OT is that a double tax since we are already paying for police coverage, and the OT budget has to increase, thus resulting in more money going to the sheriff's dept? I think that its next to impossible to stop littering. There are signs ALLLLL over the highway but I cannot count how many times a cigarette butt is thrown out the window in front of me. So the rec and parks idea of maybe using a fee to stop those folks from coming by creating a fee is the only way. But they underestimated their desire to fish. Like I suggested before. Make fishing illegal at the beach. Make it solely a nature park. If people want to fish they can go to one of the piers. It would probably be a lot easier to enforce littering laws their since the square footage of the area they can fish is a lot lower.
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Post by ravens20 on Sept 22, 2014 23:25:07 GMT -4
No, it's not the same, and it's done all the time. If you want increased services, you have to pay for it. They don't have the money to provide what the public wants, so they add a fee to use the parks. It's either that or they raise taxes, at least in this instance only the people that use the parks pay for it. "Double Taxation" has a specific meaning, you can keep using it incorrectly if you'd like but it makes it look like you don't actually understand the definition of the words. This is no different than a bridge toll, parking meters, paying a fee each time you go to Sandy Point, paying a fee each time you go to Quiet Waters, etc... I'm still on the fence about this. If they actually do hire park rangers and conditions improve I will fully support the fee. Now if we really get down to brass tacks, this is a discriminatory fee. It was meant to run out the Hispanics fishing at the park rather than enforcing existing littering laws, something which should have been covered by existing taxes which we all pay. As for the "double taxation" definition which you seem to not understand, we have paid for our "right" to use the park through property taxes that were SUPPOSED to be supporting the parks and in reality haven't been, they have seriously degraded within the past 10 years. Adding a "parking fee" won't change a thing, and there will be no park rangers hired. Won't happen. In the meantime, I'll either walk in, or go to parks like Eastern Neck or others. QA County can pack sand on their beach fees. I think it's time for you to use google and educate yourself on what double taxation actually is. You don't have the right to use property simply because it is paid for by your taxes. I'm sure you can think of plenty examples on your own. Regardless, you don't have to pay the fee to use the parks, they're still free. If you want increased services, you have to pay for them. I have also seen people there enforcing the parking passes, both Terrapin and Ferry Point Park. I understand that you don't like the fee, and I'll agree with you if nothing changes. The problem is that you simply don't understand the terms that you're using and the argument that you're trying to make. If you're against the fee because you don't think things will change, stick with that argument, you may be right. Making up things like double taxation (doesn't apply here) and having the "right" to use public lands (absolutely false)takes away from your main point. Edit - Discriminatory fee? You're really reaching here.
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Post by oriolesfan on Sept 23, 2014 5:46:23 GMT -4
Would gladly back police OT to start hammering the scum creating the problems
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Post by justsayin on Sept 23, 2014 6:03:08 GMT -4
Too bad county residents aren't excluded or given a huge discount since we already pay county taxes The public beaches in Queen Anne's County were purchased with POS (Program Open Space) money from the State, there for you cant charge folks from outside the county and not the county residents, state will not allow it. frankf, itsme, shoreterp, oriolesfan, markp, KITransplant, emsguru, alanr, Tommy, oysterabe, bchevy, moxie, coolenoughusername, alleycat, ravens20, rdkntriker, pineapple head,
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Post by justsayin on Sept 23, 2014 6:19:33 GMT -4
The Beaches in Queen Anne's County were purchased with what they call POS (program open space) money from the state or they were drastically improved with this money from the state, there fore you cant charge out of county folks and not the in-county folks. All the revenue generated from this beach permit fee, has gone back into hiring of 4 park rangers to enforce the rules of keeping our beaches safe and clean. by the way...75% of the permits sold were to out of county residents...just about $75,000 worth of revenue.
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