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Post by lynn on Mar 18, 2009 16:06:17 GMT -4
To anyone who voted for Obama... are the changes he's making the "change" you wanted for America? Obama seems to be setting some kind of a record. Everyday he has some new change and everyday I think "What the hell?". Yes, I voted for Bush, but whenever he did something stupid like trying to open our ports to Dubai, I shouted out "What the hell?!". Fortunately enough people voiced their outrage and it never happened. So, now King Obama wants OUR wounded military to pay for injuries obtained well serving OUR country!! I have to say "What the hell?!!" This is just so wrong on so many levels. Obama wants to socialize medicine and provide medical care for everyone, however he wants our wounded military members to pay? ?!!!!! I always knew Obama didn't like the military, but this shows complete disrespect to our heroes who fight for our country. The other day I went to a doctor's appointment and the doctor was running late and the office was getting full and everyone was chatting with each other. The girl who was running the computer payment system was having trouble getting it up and running. When she finally got the system up we got in line to pay our co-pays. Several people got in line to get their receipts even though they didn't have any co-pay. I paid $30 for my co-pay and sat down. The woman I sat beside commented on how I have such a high co-pay and how she would hate to have to pay $30 every time she goes to the doctors. The young man who was sitting across from us agreed with her and was laughing about the good deal he was getting. He was quite open and proud about how he got his "good deal". He told us that he had some citations and he was supposed to show up at the AA District Court for his hearing and to pay the tickets. He forgot about his hearing so he missed his court date and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest. The next day he went to the court and explained his situation. Somehow he was processed right there for the arrest and immediately released upon payment of his fines. He then found out that he was entitled to paid medical care because he is a "released prisoner". OMG, my jaw about dropped when he told me that. The lady beside me was on some kind of paid government medical care (she wasn't quiet at all when she was at the desk). So here I am a hardworking taxpayer who has never been arrested and I pay $30 (which I don't have a problem with). What I have a hard time with is knowing that I am paying $30 while the one person pays $0 and the other pays $3 while neither of them need the governments financial assistance. Why do I say they don't need assistance? Well, IMO, if you are driving new, expensive cars, then you should not be taking assistance from anyone. The woman was driving a new Cadillac and the guy was driving a new (looking) huge pick-up truck with huge tires. Both of these people were driving newer and more expensive vehicles than the car I was driving. Yes, its possible that maybe they were driving someone elses vehicles, but I doubt it. I think they are just one of the many who completely abuse our system. I have no problem with people who make more than I do, or people who have nicer cars than I have. I congratulate and appreciate people who work for their money and can afford nice things because they work. What I have a real problem with are the individuals who take handouts from everyone and then turn around and ask for handouts from others. If you can't afford your own medical care, before you seek handouts from your fellow taxpayers... you better get rid of your expensive cars first. So, Obama has no problem giving free medical care to those who were released from prison. He has no problem giving out free medical care to those who don't qualify. He has no problem giving free medical care to the illegals, but he wants our wounded military to pay for their own care?! This is an absolute outrage. news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/03/13/administration-considering-plan-to-charge-vets-for-care/
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Post by cheapshotartist on Mar 18, 2009 19:44:51 GMT -4
I know that Presidents have speech writers when the Presidents go out and give a speech. What has me concerned is that everyday, Obama gives a speech, via his teleprompter. It is as if he is a prop standing up their reading.
So my question is, who is really running the Presidential office. There is no possible way he has time to write all these policy speeches he is reading from a teleprompter each day.
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Post by funnel101 on Mar 18, 2009 22:37:58 GMT -4
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Post by hisea on Mar 19, 2009 5:33:13 GMT -4
Welcome to the USSA! United Socialist State of America.
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Post by hisea on Mar 19, 2009 5:56:11 GMT -4
I was injured going out the back of a helicopter in 1985, I completed the mission and spent sometime in a military hospital. Later in my tour I was having trouble walking and was in pain all the time! In 1993 I could not walk, I would have to crawl to get around,I was rushed to a military hospital and examined. The doc's told me I had injured my back and operated. From 1993 till the day I retired I had to fight the military to stay in my job. I couldn't think of any thing else that I loved to do and felt so proud of doing! I really felt that I could beat my injury, I was wrong! I suffer everyday from pain. I receive money for my retirement, It helps pay for my house and then some. I will never be able to do the job I wanted to do when I retired, and that makes me sad! But I would do it all again because somethings are bigger than ourself.
In pain everyday and I am still happy and still love my country! God Bless America!
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Post by einebierbitte on Mar 19, 2009 6:28:38 GMT -4
I was injured going out the back of a helicopter in 1985, I completed the mission and spent sometime in a military hospital. Later in my tour I was having trouble walking and was in pain all the time! In 1993 I could not walk, I would have to crawl to get around,I was rushed to a military hospital and examined. The doc's told me I had injured my back and operated. From 1993 till the day I retired I had to fight the military to stay in my job. I couldn't think of any thing else that I loved to do and felt so proud of doing! I really felt that I could beat my injury, I was wrong! I suffer everyday from pain. I receive money for my retirement, It helps pay for my house and then some. I will never be able to do the job I wanted to do when I retired, and that makes me sad! But I would do it all again because somethings are bigger than ourself. In pain everyday and I am still happy and still love my country! God Bless America! May God Bless You!
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Post by baglady on Mar 19, 2009 8:22:36 GMT -4
I was very discouraged reading this thread, until I saw Deep Sea's post. Deep Sea, I salute you!
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Post by shadow1 on Mar 19, 2009 8:51:01 GMT -4
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Post by moosie on Mar 19, 2009 10:04:16 GMT -4
(mute = moot) obama stated all along that if the idea met with opposition, he would drop it. veteran's organizations understood this (i can quote if needed). and that is exactly what he did. one can and should have an opinion, but one should not present as fact things that are not. i suspect this was an idea thrown at obama as a way to address problems, and that he was presented with some positive aspects. so... might people 1. not jump the gun with the attacks and accusations 2. support this president, too, even if only half-way, seeing as he has not been in office long. he's your prez, show him some support, give him a chance, don't condemn him outright. 3. consider that he's not the devil incarnate, and maybe actually would like good things for this country. 4. there may be other valid points of view. 5. get your facts. i think what happens is that people get riled up, and then later remember only some statement someone made that "obama hates veterans" and nothing beyond that, and add that to their often misconceived impressions, and there you go. i applaud his decision, i don't condemn him for exploring alternate approaches to all of our problems, and i intend to wait and see.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 10:17:11 GMT -4
Nice response and well said Moosie.
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Post by shadow1 on Mar 19, 2009 10:19:57 GMT -4
Moosie -exactly. I preferred to use "mute", as in don't want to hear or talk about it anymore
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Post by moosie on Mar 19, 2009 11:19:01 GMT -4
Moosie -exactly. I preferred to use "mute", as in don't want to hear or talk about it anymore ;D ;D
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Post by linda712 on Mar 19, 2009 13:19:21 GMT -4
Deep Sea, I am honored by your service to this Country and hope your pain minimizes, as well. Your statements enforce my thinking that this should never have been an idea for consideration in the first place. Some things just aren't, and this is definitely one of them.
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Post by lynn on Mar 19, 2009 16:38:39 GMT -4
(mute = moot) obama stated all along that if the idea met with opposition, he would drop it. veteran's organizations understood this (i can quote if needed). and that is exactly what he did. one can and should have an opinion, but one should not present as fact things that are not. i suspect this was an idea thrown at obama as a way to address problems, and that he was presented with some positive aspects. so... might people 1. not jump the gun with the attacks and accusations 2. support this president, too, even if only half-way, seeing as he has not been in office long. he's your prez, show him some support, give him a chance, don't condemn him outright. 3. consider that he's not the devil incarnate, and maybe actually would like good things for this country. 4. there may be other valid points of view. 5. get your facts. i think what happens is that people get riled up, and then later remember only some statement someone made that "obama hates veterans" and nothing beyond that, and add that to their often misconceived impressions, and there you go. i applaud his decision, i don't condemn him for exploring alternate approaches to all of our problems, and i intend to wait and see. Ah, nobody is jumping the gun with accusations and attacks. His words are documented, you don't have to dig them out anywhere. The fact that he would even think of this as a possibility rings loud and clear. So.... 1. Some of you had no problem with dishing out the crap you felt about Bush. Now Obama is in office and you don't want anyone to call out the FACTS about him. 2. I will respect the authority of the president as he is our president. I wish the man no harm. We have freedom of speech here in this wonderful country of ours and I will speak my mind about all of his dumb moves. I spoke out about Bush too when I thought he was doing something dumb. 3. I don't like his attitude and I don't like most of the things he has done since he has has been in office. I never said I hated the man. 4. Of course he wants to "do good" for the country... he is the president. However, the majority of what he feels is good for the country differs greatly from what many Americans, including myself, feel is good for the country. Our country already had massive amounts of debt and now I feel he will completely bankrupt us. 5. I never said "Obama hates Veterans". I said "I always knew Obama didn't like the military". If you want examples of why I feel that way, I will gladly list them off. 6. As far as "giving him a chance", well, I have been trying my hardest to be optimistic about him, but he keeps doing things that make me want to scream. I would love for him to turn out to be a wonderful president and do wonderful things for our country, but so far I am doubtful. So.... please remember... some of us don't like what Obama is doing and we will voice our opinions. If Obama ever does something which I feel is great and wonderful for the country.... I will state that too.
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Post by moosie on Mar 19, 2009 17:11:49 GMT -4
I never said "Obama hates Veterans". I said "I always knew Obama didn't like the military". If you want examples of why I feel that way, I will gladly list them off. no one ever said you did. "Of course he wants to "do good" for the country... he is the president. However, the majority of what he feels is good for the country differs greatly from what many Americans, including myself, feel is good for the country." and does not differ from perhaps many more--so those people are entitled to their opinions as well. why the attack? just stated that he said he would back off if the idea was opposed, and he did. those are the facts. that's all this was about.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 22:01:33 GMT -4
Being proposed and rammed down the throat of people is two different things. It was a proposal, resistance was met and it was dropped. If people actually read the reason for the the idea, they night understand why. The VA does not cover everything for every reason all the time.
It's the similar as to when you and your spouse both have insurance coverage from different companies or policies. If one covers 80%, the other policy might cover the other 20% to get a total of a 100% coverage for medical needs.
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Post by misternuke on Mar 20, 2009 1:26:29 GMT -4
I think the fact that this "proposal" was even something that crossed his lips speaks volumes. If not about his attitude about "those who have borne the fight", at least about those he chooses to advise him on his policies and proposals.
His statement about backing off of the proposal "if it met with resistance" was post facto....all CYA....the Commander of the American Legion even stated how the President was very unyielding in his opinion when he met with the leaders of the top veterans' organizations the other day. His opinion only changed when he realized he had REALLY stepped in it this time. I'm glad he did come around, but this is one issue that never should have been floated in the first place.
And saying that the VA doesn't cover everything all the time is right...but that is not what was in question here. The proposal was to pawn off the bill for service related injuries and disabilities....bills that I dare say have already been PAID IN FULL by those who served and should be PAID IN FULL by those who enjoy their freedom. To even consider shirking the American obligation to her defenders is inexcusable. This country has no more legitimate responsibility than to its wounded veterans.
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Post by kl on Mar 20, 2009 7:25:52 GMT -4
Thanks so much moosie for being that voice of reason. And we can't forget the love that Bush and his folks showed our wounded veterans now can we? www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701172.htmlThe paper described a medical bureaucracy that left hundreds of wounded Iraqi vets wading through mountains of paperwork as they tried to obtain medical care. The Post also reported on the poor condition of rooms used by some veterans receiving treatment at the hospital. On Thursday, the Pentagon responded by firing Maj. Gen. George Weightman, the hospital's director. Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that there will now be an overhaul in the way Walter Reed deals with outpatients. "As we find things that need to have corrective action, we will take those steps immediately," Boyce said. To begin the process, the Army named Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley to serve as the interim head of Walter Reed. Lt. Gen. Kiley is the top Army medical officer. But several former Army officials who have worked at Walter Reed — which Lt. Gen. Kiley ran in a previous stint that ended in 2004 — say he has known about the problems at the hospital since 2003. And even last week, as the Pentagon promised swift action, Lt. Gen. Kiley was publicly blasting The Washington Post for what he called "one-sided reporting."
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Post by kl on Mar 20, 2009 7:26:59 GMT -4
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Post by lynn on Mar 20, 2009 10:15:05 GMT -4
kl, I am so glad you posted the cartoons. Just as you are free to point out the bad going on during the Bush Administration, I have the right to voice out the bad during the Obama Administration.
I also clearly voiced my opinions with some of the bad things going on during the Bush Administration.
I like Bush, but that does not cloud my mind and mean that everything he does I am in support of. Having allegiance to your country and to your president does not deny you the right of having an opinion and expressing your views on your opinion.
What I would love is for some of those on the far left to be able to open their mouths on some of these things. This isn't a matter of being a Democrat or Republican, it is a matter of speaking out on what you feel is right or wrong - no matter what your party is. So many people seem to vote the "party line", why?
I vote for who I like, not for those who I am told I should like. I voted for Gore when he ran for president... much later I regretted my decision and was very glad that he was not elected.
Another example of how I have changed my views on someone is... Rosie O'Donnell. A long time ago I used to love her. I thought she was very funny and very sweet. She also did a lot of great things for children which I also really loved. Then something seemed to happen to her and she got a little mean on her shows, then she got more mean, lastly she became (in my opinion) a hateful mean woman. I was sad about her change. Yes, she still did some of the wonderful things for the childrens organizations and that was still very good. But now she was being a mean woman about so many things.
I know its on completely different levels to compare a tv personality to a president, but I'm trying to get some of you to understand that its completely alright to express your disapproval with someone even if it is someone you originally (or still) supported.
I know that some of you on the left can't be agreeing with everything that is going on and I am so sure that some of you must be saying to yourselves "Oh, I wish we had elected Hillary".
Obama was thinking of doing something completely wrong and completely disrespectful to the wonderful members of our military. Anyone who can't see that is blind and anyone who doesn't voice their opinion on something that they know is wrong...(IMO) is a coward.
I was happy to see that so many of the Democrats in Office said that they would never support this legislation.
Again, I hope Obama pulls a bunny out of his hat and does wonderful things for our country. If, and when, he does that I will be jumping up and down and clapping and saying "yeah, good job!" But when he is on stage and pulling out dudds, I will say "boooo".
Ah, back to the cartoon kl... I am going to copy that onto the socialist thread so I can post my opinion there.
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Post by lynn on Mar 20, 2009 10:22:46 GMT -4
kl, I tried cutting and pasting your cartoon and couldn't. Would you mind putting a copy of the 2nd cartoon on the socialist thread, I would really like to comment on it. thanks.
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Post by kl on Mar 20, 2009 10:25:15 GMT -4
Feel free Lynn. And I concur with all that you wrote. No arguments. I just feel that the GOP is doing their best, instead of helping their country, but dividing their country. And now this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March is Brain Injury Awareness Month and to observe it, the Pentagon did something special: it told the truth.
In a news conference on March 4th, Brig. Gen. Loree Sutton estimated that as many as 360,000 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan may have suffered service-related brain injuries. Until now the Pentagon estimated that some 10,000 veterans of the Afghanistan and Iraq war had suffered brain traumas.
It's about time they got it right. Almost a year ago, in April 2008, an independent report by the RAND Corporation estimated that some 320,000 troops -- 20 percent of the deployed troops -- had suffered traumatic brain injury (TBI). Included in the RAND figure were blast-induced neurotraumas (BINT) from new weaponry like improvised explosive devices, during which the head remains closed and, more often than not, the victim remains conscious. These closed-brain blast injuries are the most common injury -- brain or otherwise -- of the current wars, but until now, for the DoD, they didn't count.
"Just a Concussion"
Admitting to the incidence of the injury is a start, but the DoD has yet to admit its potential gravity. The DoD did not count closed-head blast injuries because they deemed them mild traumatic brain injuries, commonly referred to as concussions. In December 2008, another independent report, prepared for the VA by the Institute of Medicine, warned that the blast-induced neurotrauma might be something distinctive and far more serious than the mild TBI or concussions associated with closed-head injury. According to George R. Rutherford, of the Department of Epidimiology and Biostatistics at UC Medical School, San Francisco, the chair of the OIM committee that wrote the report, these blast-induced neurotraumas, seem unlike injuries we've seen before: "We're all worried that the blast neurotrauma hasn't really made it into the human literature."
Unfortunately, in the same news conference in which Brig. Gen Sutton offered new numbers, Lt. Col. Lynne Lowe, TBI Program Director in the Office of the Army Surgeon General, assured that blast injuries are just a concussion -- "the same as we see in a football game on TV." "Providers can give medication for headaches or dizziness, and reassure them that they will be OK … " Not true. Many veterans have long-lasting and serious symptoms.
An IED explosion produces high-pressured air waves that move at 1,600 feet a second, spreading hundreds of yards. The blast then strikes again: high-pressured air displaced by the first blast flies back to the site of the explosion in a "secondary wind." Even without penetration, the brain and other organs can sustain profound injury. According to Keith Young, vice-chair of research at Texas A&M and the VA Center for Excellence for Research on Returning War Veterans, "The blast is so close and so large, it seems to be shaking the brain. My guess is that this causes micro-bleeds." Others speak of diffuse axonal damage.
Yet the "It's Just a Concussion" theory pervades the DoD. The Walter Reed Army Institute for Research (WRAIR) website offers "General Questions an Answers" about blast injuries that deem them "no different" from concussions on a "football field," which "usually resolve … within a few days." The Q & A discourages screening, lest soldiers with simple concussions think they have a brain injury.
"It's Just in Your Head"
Complementing the "It's Just a Concussion Theory" is the "It's Just in Your Head" theory that the DoD and VA developed after the first Gulf War to explain Gulf War illness. A much touted 2008 Army study led by Charles W, Hoge, Director of the Division of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, reported that while soldiers with mild brain traumas were found to have more health problems, it was due to their "PTSD and depression" not their TBI. But as researchers like Johns Hopkins' Ibolja Cernak, MD, PhD, have demonstrated, soldiers with blast injuries have a high incidence of PTSD and depression in addition to problems with attention, concentration, memory, headaches, dizziness, seizures, gait, nausea, mood, and vision, among others.
The Pentagon is a vast beast, as uncoordinated and incoherent as it is rigid and rule-ridden. Thus while WRAIR informational material minimizes the BINT, WRAIR's own Blast Neurotrauma Research Program seeks "to characterize potential biomechanical and biological mechanisms of injury, and the pathophysiological, neuropathological and neurologic impairments that resulted from exposure to explosive blast." And new initiatives like the Center for Neuroscience and Regenerative Medicine and the National Intrepid Center of Excellence as well renewed activity in older organizations like the Defense and Brain Injury Center are undertaking research into the nature and viable treatment of this new brain injury. This, like Brig. Gen. Sutton's disclosure, is encouraging.The OIM remarks and recommendations on injuries in the current wars appeared in "Gulf War and Health: Long-term Consequences of Traumatic Brain Injury," the seventh of a series of OIM reports on the health outcomes of the 1991 war. Eighteen years after Desert Storm, the truth about the devastating illness that followed a third of our troops home, is only now emerging. In November, the Research Advisory Committee, a congressionally-mandated committee of high-level scientists, reported that Gulf War illness was "without a doubt" "caused" by neurotoxins the government had exposed troops to, including experimental anti-nerve gas pretreatment pills, insecticides and insect repellants, and sarin pluming from munitions facilities the U.S. had bombed. The committee criticized the "skewed" and "unscientific" research directed by VA and other bureaucracies, which suppressed evidence of the chemical causes and organic nature of Gulf War illness, in favor of bogus claims that wartime stress had caused an essentially psychological ailment. The report lamented that after 18 years there is still no treatment for the more than 200,000 troops suffering from Gulf War illness, a disease caused by profound neurological damage.
Eight years is better than eighteen for telling the truth. But there's much more truth to learn and tell. The blast injuries of Americans -- and Iraqis -- will remain when Brain Injury Awareness Month passes. Robert Gates's reformulated Pentagon has agreed to show us our dead soldiers. Now we need a thorough coherent approach to diagnosing, healing, and compensating the living afflicted by the current wars. Pre- and post-deployment neuropsychological testing and imaging studies would be an important step as would silencing the misinformation of Army spokespeople eager to discount the hidden wounds distinctive to this tragic war.By Nora Eisenberg
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Post by lynn on Mar 20, 2009 10:35:20 GMT -4
kl, that too I want to respond too. I can't figure out how to copy some of the things to the other thread. This too would fit in on the socialist thread. I agree with what you said too kl and your clip you posted also supports my opinion of what I'm trying to express on socialized society. I am computer challenged today.. Could you also copy this response onto the socialist page? Thanks. I have to go now I have a teleconference soon. Have a good weekend.
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Post by linda712 on Mar 20, 2009 11:30:01 GMT -4
My point exactly, Misternuke. And bringing it closer to home, I would also like to state that I feel the same way regarding, police, firemen, and teachers. Their lives are put on the line every day on the home front -- yes, teachers as well.
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Post by bchevy on Mar 20, 2009 12:36:44 GMT -4
kl, I tried cutting and pasting your cartoon and couldn't. Would you mind putting a copy of the 2nd cartoon on the socialist thread, I would really like to comment on it. thanks. Not that I like the idea of posting the same post in different threads, I think if you: Hit the "quote" button on kl's post, Then copy & paste it into a reply on the thread you want,,,, I think that might work.....
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