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Post by safetildecember on Nov 8, 2009 11:28:48 GMT -4
Cat declawing is inhumane and illegal in many countries and even some places in the USA. San Fransico just voted on the ban and some other cities in California are getting ready to. content.usatoday.com/communities/pawprintpost/post/2009/10/ban-on-cat-declawing-in-san-francisco-is-set-for-vote-/1I urge everyone to be anti-declaw and to urge your vets not to do it. If enough people got behind this issue and put pressure on their local vets, maybe the ones that still do it would stop. Dr. Kate Howard at Spay Now is the only local vet I know of that will not do it. HOORAY FOR HER!
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Post by deputy on Nov 9, 2009 7:18:39 GMT -4
I can think of a lot more better things for our elected officials to spend time on.
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Post by AquaHolic on Nov 9, 2009 8:16:19 GMT -4
I don't like it either...BUT...it should be a choice for people to have. Let me tell you why. Years ago I had 3 cats. They demolished my furniture, wood trim and the carpet....and I trimmed their nails...they had toys and scratching posts...but they decided to shred my sofa and love seat...I had them all declawed. WHY....because My husband would have booted them outside. Declawing to me was the lesser of the 2 evils. Two of those cats lived until they were 20 and 21 years old. The third cat made it to age 10 (had a kidney issue) They were inside pampered kitties. I understand that declawing is removing the first knuckle...and I don't like it. But there are cases where declawing is the better choice. I have two kitties now....they have torn up my carpet trying to get a mouse in the wall. My husband wants to declaw them....but they will not be declawed this time. I even tried to glue those nail caps to them...lol...oh what a waste of money they were. It should remain an option. Now with that said....a lot of people do not understand what may happen to the cat when they declaw. They might stop using the litter box as the litter hurts the paws now...They might start biting as they have no way to communicate since swatting won't work anymore....Their entire personality may change.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 9, 2009 8:24:28 GMT -4
Yes their personality usually changes and they often times start peeing all over the house. It amazes me what people will do to cats because they have claws. If someone does not like the fact the cats have claws and can scratch their kid or their furniture, they should get a dog and let the dog bite their kid in the face and tear up their rugs and shoes. Some people say they get the cat declawed because they have kids, but yet dogs kill and injure more people than cats yet you don't see people running out to get the dogs mutilated. People irritate me.
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Post by deputy on Nov 9, 2009 10:09:24 GMT -4
Yes their personality usually changes and they often times start peeing all over the house. That wouldn't be much of a change. I've worked in enough houses with cats to know that most of them pee in the house. Deny it all you want, My mother still denies it or make an excuse for it. Cats should be outside where the foxes can have playmates.
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Post by AquaHolic on Nov 16, 2009 9:23:17 GMT -4
Yes their personality usually changes and they often times start peeing all over the house. That wouldn't be much of a change. I've worked in enough houses with cats to know that most of them pee in the house. Deny it all you want, My mother still denies it or make an excuse for it. Cats should be outside where the foxes can have playmates. You are an (insert some cuss word here). The only time a cat will pee in the house is if the House is dirty enough for the cat to think its their litter box....or if they have a kidney problem or bladder infection....or if the litter box is filthy. I have had cats all my life and NEVER had one that peed in the house...ever. I have 2 cats now..they have 2 large litter boxes that are Rubbermade tall containers without the lids and a hole cut into the side for them to go in and out. So if your mother has cats that pee in her house...its either because...her house is filthy...or the cat has a problem...or that its been declawed and can't stand the litter touching its paws. Cats do NOT and should not be left out side... I repeat...you are an (insert some cuss word here...any will do)
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Post by falgar25 on Nov 16, 2009 11:46:43 GMT -4
If someone does not like the fact the cats have claws ... Just for the sake of argument (and really, nothing else), would your sentiments be the same if we replaced "claws" with "testicles?" If you don't believe there is any excuse for altering/mutilating a pet in one manner, are you willing to accept an excuse/reason for altering/mutilating a pet in another manner? Why is one more socially acceptable than another?
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 16, 2009 11:49:58 GMT -4
If someone does not like the fact the cats have claws ... Just for the sake of argument (and really, nothing else), would your sentiments be the same if we replaced "claws" with "testicles?" If you don't believe there is any excuse for altering/mutilating a pet in one manner, are you willing to accept an excuse/reason for altering/mutilating a pet in another manner? Why is one more socially acceptable than another? There is no benefit medically or psychologically to the cat to have it declawed. There is a benefit to having it spayed and neutered, cancer being one of the reasons among other medical benefits.
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Post by Frank on Nov 16, 2009 11:51:43 GMT -4
Cats should be outside where the foxes can have playmates. Now that's funny!
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 16, 2009 15:46:29 GMT -4
I have two cats, neither are declawed, However, I had a cat that was declawed as a kid growing up and let me tell you, she was one of the best hunters I have ever seen. She could climb trees, stand up to the neighborhood dogs, and catch and kill her dinner, and she had no front claws whatsoever.... She used the litter box in the house, but eventually she learned to go outside like the dogs. She loved being indoors and outdoors... She lived to be well over 20 years and that my friends was well over 20 years ago that I had her.
The only reason that my cats are not declawed.... Well I am just too d**n lazy and too d**n cheap to have it done!!!
Plus, there are tricks that you can use to keep them from scratching up everything... My two don't scratch up the furniture any more...but it was patient process breaking them!!
So it all depends on what you are willing to pay for.. I see declawing them no different than having them neutered, or clipping a dogs ears and tails....(which for some odd reason bothers me....)....
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 16, 2009 16:16:13 GMT -4
I have two cats, neither are declawed, However, I had a cat that was declawed as a kid growing up and let me tell you, she was one of the best hunters I have ever seen. She could climb trees, stand up to the neighborhood dogs, and catch and kill her dinner, and she had no front claws whatsoever.... She used the litter box in the house, but eventually she learned to go outside like the dogs. She loved being indoors and outdoors... She lived to be well over 20 years and that my friends was well over 20 years ago that I had her. The only reason that my cats are not declawed.... Well I am just too d**n lazy and too d**n cheap to have it done!!! Plus, there are tricks that you can use to keep them from scratching up everything... My two don't scratch up the furniture any more...but it was patient process breaking them!! So it all depends on what you are willing to pay for.. I see declawing them no different than having them neutered, or clipping a dogs ears and tails....(which for some odd reason bothers me....).... Please think about the fact that it is illegal in many countries and some cities in the USA. Please think about the fact that there are some vets out there who will not declaw a cat and they will not cut off a dog's tail and ears. If you find a vet like that, you most likely have a good vet and you have a real animal lover. Three cheers for Dr. Kate Howard at Spay Now, she is the only local vet that will not mutilate animals in those ways. To have an animal spayed and nuetered is to protect the animal, to stop the overpopulation of animals, extend it's life and to prevent various cancers. There are no medical or psychological benefits to the animals to have them declawed or their ears and tails chopped off. More and more breeders are not docking tails and clipping ears. More power to them.
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Post by deputy on Nov 16, 2009 16:45:39 GMT -4
If someone does not like the fact the cats have claws ... Just for the sake of argument (and really, nothing else), would your sentiments be the same if we replaced "claws" with "testicles?" If you don't believe there is any excuse for altering/mutilating a pet in one manner, are you willing to accept an excuse/reason for altering/mutilating a pet in another manner? Why is one more socially acceptable than another? What he said!
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Post by deputy on Nov 16, 2009 16:46:13 GMT -4
Cats should be outside where the foxes can have playmates. Now that's funny! Took ya long enough! Foxes need friends too.
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Post by mcbeth on Nov 16, 2009 20:14:05 GMT -4
I've never been a fan of declawing for a couple of reasons. First, not a fan because it is basically like removing the ends of all of our fingers and toes (at the last knuckle). I can appreciate that it is a convenience, and for a destructive cat, I can understand why an owner might resort to it. Second, if they get out, they really are more vulnerable. I know some cats "compensate". (Eine, we have a neighbor whose cat lives outdoors a large part of the time, and she is one of the toughest cats in the whole neighborhood; I wouldn't put a rotweiller up against her!) But so many of them can't defend themselves without the claws, and it's just too easy for a cat to get out of the house accidentally. I don't know how I feel about outlawing it, at this point. I wish more veterinarians would give owners alternatives instead of just going for surgical measures. Many (not all, I know) cats can be trained not to scratch, but it takes a lot of patience. Cats are smart and can learn new behaviors, but their independence ensures that they will do what they want to do when they want to do it. As for the peeing in the house, it can also be behavioral or it can be that it becomes a habit to keep "marking", not just a dirty litter box. (But no one wants to use a dirty bathroom, just most of us don't pee or poop in the rest of the house, if it is).
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Post by hemlock256 on Nov 21, 2009 17:56:49 GMT -4
Ok, we had our cats both declawed for many reasons. We had the laser procedure done (THE most humane, least painful option available for declawing) and both of our cats came through with flying colors and no ill effects, they both still "scratch" their scratching post, use their litter boxes with no problems and have had absolutely no "personality changes". They were a little sleepy when they came home, we used shredded paper for the first week so that the sites didn't become impacted and now they are perfectly fine and happy.
There are a LOT of myths out there regarding declawing. I see some of them voiced in this thread. While you may not agree with the practice, it's really up to the pet owner. If you disagree with it...don't do it. If you don't have a problem with it, go right ahead.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 21, 2009 18:03:49 GMT -4
Well I am glad you think your cats are happy and fine. I bet if they could talk they would express another opinion. The fact that it is illegal in many other countries and many vets will not do it speaks volumes. There are still lots of supersticious type stigmas concerning cats and they get a bad rap because of it. If someone cannot handle getting scratched by a cat or having it scratch a piece of furniture, they should get a dog and let it eat their shoes and rugs and bite their kid in the face. You don't see anyone going out and mutilating a dog so they cannot claw and bite. Dogs kill and hurt more people and destroy more human belongings than any cat.
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Post by falgar25 on Nov 21, 2009 18:34:45 GMT -4
The fact that it is illegal in many other countries and many vets will not do it speaks volumes. Be careful using that logic. If you are willing to look at what is illegal in other countries and argue that it should be illegal here then someone could make an argument that if an activity is legal in another country then it should be legal here. I suspect that's a can of worms you don't want to open. and about dogs too, for example:
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 21, 2009 18:45:22 GMT -4
The fact that it is illegal in many other countries and many vets will not do it speaks volumes. Falgar said : "Be careful using that logic. If you are willing to look at what is illegal in other countries and argue that it should be illegal here then someone could make an argument that if an activity is legal in another country then it should be legal here. I suspect that's a can of worms you don't want to open. " Of course it depends on the country. I would not advocate many things in many countries but cat declawing is illegal in most of Europe and many other places. I do not advocate not doing it just because other countries don't do it, the point I was making is that civilized people in civilized countries don't do it and many vets "won't" do it so there must be a good reason why.
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Post by RobMoore on Nov 22, 2009 10:11:13 GMT -4
I think "civilized" European countries are exactly the ones falgar is referring to. The EU is not the USA. They may be the most similar to us, but that doesn't make them the same. I don't want their current values and legal precedent used to form any more of our laws.
Least this goes off-topic into global politics, I'll come back to the cat argument.
I don't have, and probably won't ever have cats. I'm a dog person. If there is a behavior in them I don't like, training is the answer. With cats, the answer is surgery?
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 22, 2009 11:36:54 GMT -4
I think "civilized" European countries are exactly the ones falgar is referring to. The EU is not the USA. They may be the most similar to us, but that doesn't make them the same. I don't want their current values and legal precedent used to form any more of our laws. Least this goes off-topic into global politics, I'll come back to the cat argument. I don't have, and probably won't ever have cats. I'm a dog person. If there is a behavior in them I don't like, training is the answer. With cats, the answer is surgery? For some people their answer is surgery and I think it is a bad answer. The point about other countries and other cities in the USA where declawing is illegal and the point that some vets will not do it has to do with their reasons why, not their location, culture and other laws. I would not suggest the USA endorse Sharia law, I would not endorse the USA only allow every family to have one child, etc. etc. There are good reasons declawing is illegal in some places and good reasons why some vets will not do it.
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Post by RobMoore on Nov 22, 2009 12:13:22 GMT -4
I don't have a cat in this fight, but to pick a side, I'm against declawing.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 22, 2009 12:47:53 GMT -4
I don't have a cat in this fight, but to pick a side, I'm against declawing. Good, I am glad to hear it. There are numerous reasons why people should be against it. I suspect some of those reasons are why it is illegal in some places and many vets and cat organizations are against it.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 23, 2009 13:03:32 GMT -4
I don't have, and probably won't ever have cats. I'm a dog person. If there is a behavior in them I don't like, training is the answer. With cats, the answer is surgery? The answer should also be training in cats. Most cats can be trained to scratch appropriate places, though cats can't be trained NOT to scratch at all.
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Post by dmki on Dec 9, 2009 10:21:12 GMT -4
I think I am against declawing a cat also. If the purpose is to keep it from scratching your furniture then you shouldnt have a cat anyway. To own a pet you should be responsible enough to train it and acknowledge its needs.
On the other hand I own a cat that has been declawed and dont mind it at all. It acts like a normal cat even goes through the motions of scratching things but without the claws. The bad thing is with these declawed cats they are the underdog ;D when it comes to defending themselves against another cat.
So you people who let there cats roam the neighborhood especially at night better not let your cat come into my yard and into that trap I have waiting for it. You wont see your cat again.
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Post by safetildecember on Dec 9, 2009 11:23:53 GMT -4
I think I am against declawing a cat also. If the purpose is to keep it from scratching your furniture then you shouldnt have a cat anyway. To own a pet you should be responsible enough to train it and acknowledge its needs. On the other hand I own a cat that has been declawed and dont mind it at all. It acts like a normal cat even goes through the motions of scratching things but without the claws. The bad thing is with these declawed cats they are the underdog ;D when it comes to defending themselves against another cat. So you people who let there cats roam the neighborhood especially at night better not let your cat come into my yard and into that trap I have waiting for it. You wont see your cat again. I am also against having cats outdoors. A cat sleeps a minumum of 18 hours a day so when you let your cat outside, you are basically letting it out to find a safe place to sleep. I am curious as to what you do with a cat that you trap.
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