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Post by RobMoore on Sept 17, 2011 9:00:02 GMT -4
I understand your position, Aqua. Mine exists because when you negotiate that intersection during offpeak hours, you can see plenty far in all directions, from any lane.
So, the problems start when you add the trucks and afternoon traffic. People just can't let their impatience take priority over avoiding collisions.
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Post by AquaHolic on Sept 17, 2011 9:38:17 GMT -4
I understand your position, Aqua. Mine exists because when you negotiate that intersection during offpeak hours, you can see plenty far in all directions, from any lane. So, the problems start when you add the trucks and afternoon traffic. People just can't let their impatience take priority over avoiding collisions. I knew that is how you would respond...thank you for that. And yes you are correct about the off peak hours... but when you add the trucks and so many cars going every which way and people not yielding to the people who have the right of way...you get a nightmare. 301's traffic is not the same anymore..we have more traffic and SHA needs to take that into account. I would love to see an over pass there..mainly for the kids who travel across that intersection to get to school...kids are kids...and they make errors...I would just like them to have the opportunity to correct their error instead of paying the price with their life. They are supposed to put J turns in starting on the 20th...I don't think they are going to work...the lanes are going to have to be exceptionally long to accommodate the trucks that will be using them...and the traffic back up behind them. SHA says traffic lights are to dangerous on 301...they are giving us a bandaid with the J Turns...but if that is all we can get..I am all for it.
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Post by falgar25 on Sept 17, 2011 9:47:16 GMT -4
I'm not a fan of stop lights, but how can a light at that intersection be more dangerous than attempting to cross a heavily traveled, four lane, high speed, divided highway with no traffic control at all?
What is the dangerous part of that intersection anyway? Is it not looking left before you cross to the center? Is it crossing the far lanes without stopping in the center? Is it attempting to cross to the center while a car is already there?
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Post by AquaHolic on Sept 17, 2011 9:58:02 GMT -4
I'm not a fan of stop lights, but how can a light at that intersection be more dangerous than attempting to cross a heavily traveled, four lane, high speed, divided highway with no traffic control at all? From what I understand SHA determined that going along with no stop lights then coming up on one is dangerous....personally I think its a cop out response because they don't give a crap about this road because it doesn't funnel people to OC...it funnels them to DE... I can't wrap my head around that notion either...
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Post by lainey on Sept 18, 2011 11:10:44 GMT -4
There used to be a stop light at 301 and 213. A good friend of mine was killed there back in 1985. While she had the green arrow to cross 301 onto 213, the driver heading south on 301 did not see his red light. Crossovers on major highways are dangerous. So are stoplights along long stretches of highway.
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Post by RobMoore on Sept 18, 2011 11:50:33 GMT -4
Rumble strips on the approach help draw attention to stop lights. Flashing yellows a half mile in advance saying "Red light ahead" also work. You see things like this on Rt 50 toward Salisbury.
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Post by AquaHolic on Sept 18, 2011 15:30:33 GMT -4
There used to be a stop light at 301 and 213. A good friend of mine was killed there back in 1985. While she had the green arrow to cross 301 onto 213, the driver heading south on 301 did not see his red light. Crossovers on major highways are dangerous. So are stoplights along long stretches of highway. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. There are ways to make the light more noticeable I like the rumble strips idea that Rob has. Rt 50 has a light at the outlets....long stretch then a light. I think with warning a light could be safe there. An Over pass would be the ideal fix. Its the way kids and buses get into the schools..there are 4 schools down that road. Something needs to be done. I don't know how safe the J Turns will be with all the Tractor Trailer activity. They will have to be extra long..and the visibility on that stretch of road between the curve and the hill I just don't see them being the answer.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 19, 2011 9:56:14 GMT -4
Seems to be an overpass is the only safe answer, however, SHA is starting the J turns this week. There is a petition for an overpass but it's too late, I'm sorry to say.
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Post by einebierbitte on Sept 20, 2011 6:49:08 GMT -4
What's a J Turn?
Back where I am from we have long stretches of highways as well, and there are traffic lights periodlically on those highways... Like Robmoore said you can put plenty of warning prior to coming upon the stop lights..... (these roads the speedlimit is 75 mph).... Rarely an accident... now... but prior to the traffic lights.....it was pretty bad...
Sounds like a cop out to me and no money.... Find the money.... Oh I know...take it from the drug dealers on welfare
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Post by KimberlyMMills on Sept 20, 2011 7:51:39 GMT -4
A few years back a friend of mine also had an accident there. I met her at her house early that morning so we could drop her car off at Centreville Garage. I was following her when all of a sudden she crossed the intersection and was hit on the right side. I pulled my car to the side of the road and ran accross the street to make sure she was okay... unfortunately she had to be flown to shock trauma, but later on I got the word that she was okay and the driver of the other car was okay too. You really have to be careful when you get behind the wheel, and be observant of other drivers out there too.
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Post by RobMoore on Sept 20, 2011 12:12:59 GMT -4
A j turn is what you see further north on 301 @ Sudlersville (300 I think)
It isn't good for places as busy as 301/304.
Crossing a highway is easier than merging from a stop, changing lanes, and stopping, all within a couple hundred yards.
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Post by einebierbitte on Sept 20, 2011 13:39:12 GMT -4
So is that what that is when you come out of the Outlets on 301 you have to turn right then go up to the next intersection to flip around...
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Post by dmki on Sept 20, 2011 15:09:33 GMT -4
J turn......its called a jug handle turn, they use them a lot in NJ and PA.
Or an indirect turn
Indirect Turns: Some of the biggest issues with managing access come at intersections where vehicles must cross traffic. Some states and cities have adopted indirect turns to reduce these conflicts. In New Jersey, the jug-handle left turn requires a right turn onto a feeder street, followed by a left onto a cross street. Detroit has extensively used an indirect U-turn that requires a U-turn past an intersection, followed by a right turn instead of a regular left turn.
Like dedicated left-turn lanes, indirect turns reduce crashes, improve congestion, and add capacity. Crashes decline by 20 percent on average, and 35 percent if the indirect turn intersection is signalized. Capacity typically shows a 15 to 20 percent gain.
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Post by AquaHolic on Sept 20, 2011 17:44:20 GMT -4
Seems to be an overpass is the only safe answer, however, SHA is starting the J turns this week. There is a petition for an overpass but it's too late, I'm sorry to say. I started the Petition for an Over pass...and it is NOT too late. I'll tell you why. Because the state has said it WILL put an over pass there...the J Turns are in the Interim (States Word) until the money can be allocated when ever that happens. Believe me...I have been talking to everyone...and I am not finished..I have the media interested...and things to help keep this in the spot light are already happening. I just saw a very upsetting video of the commissioners from 2009 almost begging the State to listen to them about 304...I think if people saw that video they would see how the Commissioners actually do give a d**n...Del Hershey came out yesterday to the Park and Ride that is next to the intersection..and Commissioner Dumenil came out also...as well as WBAL and WBOC....and the Star Democrat. The only way to make things happen is to keep on them...
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Post by lainey on Sept 20, 2011 18:53:58 GMT -4
We should have let FASTC in, they offered us an overpass at that very location.
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Post by bchevy on Sept 20, 2011 20:35:45 GMT -4
We should have let FASTC in, they offered us an overpass at that very location. FASTC, the do all, fix all, end all.......
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Post by RobMoore on Sept 21, 2011 7:34:26 GMT -4
Cause when you sit on your porch in the country, you don't want the sounds of distant gunfire drowning out the sound of passing trucks.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 21, 2011 8:18:36 GMT -4
I am so glad it's not too late for the petition. I agree, the more "noise" made, the sooner the overpass will be started. It's just a shame they have to pay 1.5 million for a "quick fix" and can't start the overpass now. Did I hear the overpass costs the state 60 million. I wonder how fast it would go up if it was OC traffic involved.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 8:31:37 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 8:44:55 GMT -4
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Post by pineapple head on Sept 21, 2011 9:09:14 GMT -4
Since our larger community is being directly impacted by the increase in Bay Bridge tolls, it seems appropriate for us to demand that the increased revenue goes to fund this project immediately, rather than this new tax on us subsidizing other Western Shore projects. Let’s put the 60% increase that is being forced on us to a constructive use!
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Post by chickennecker11 on Sept 21, 2011 10:27:48 GMT -4
OK, then what do we do, When/If another Child, Teen, Family etc. are killed at: 301 / Greenspring or 301 / Cherry Ln. or 301 / John Brown Rd. or Rte 50 / Arrington Rd Do you see the point Fatal ACCIDENTS are tragedies for ALL involved. These ESPECIALLY hit home when there is a CHILD involved. But we CAN'T keep blaming and having knee jerk reactions towards the roads and highways that SEVERAL THOUSAND people travel SAFELY daily. "At Grade" crossings are probably the MOST Dangerous road condition encountered. BUT it is possible to navigate through them safely. I believe that a LOT of the driving problems out there, can be traced back to Today's Society. Radios blaring, Cell phones ringing, Texting, Eating in the car, Family/Friends talking to the driver, Driver reading, putting on make-up, etc..... There are THOUSANDS of foolish things that we all witness every day. Take a minute and think to yourself of three things that YOU did the last time you drove, that took your eyes off the road. Isn't too hard is it ?? Maybe we could take 1/2 of the money that we would spend on an overpass and put it BACK into the BOE budget and use it for education and awareness for teens to be PROPERLY taught how to drive, and the consequences of of what happens when you don't. Go back to the days of having Driver's Ed being offered in the schools and make it a REQUIREMENT to Graduate. I am NOT suggesting that this latest tragedy had Anything to do with driver experience, but who is to say that drilling this education into our kids might not have helped? Put the kids on a bus and take them out to County wide "Hot Spots" and let the teacher show them ALL of the stupid things that happen @ intersections daily. We see ads all the time telling Adults about the dangers of Drinking and Driving. Telling us to ALWAYS have a Designated Driver, etc. Why don't we see ads telling teens and/or new drivers, and reminding ALL of us to pay attention, avoid in car distractions, keep your eyes on the road, etc..... Maybe we should just take our vehicles and put them into big rubber hamster balls and go up and down the road bouncing off everything Just a thought. Condolences to the Rice Family.
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Post by bluecrabber on Sept 21, 2011 11:36:13 GMT -4
A lot of what CN says above has merit, but one big difference between the 301/304 intersection and other at grade intersections on 301 are the trucks.. big trucks.. slow moving big trucks that have a tendency to think they own the road, etc.. I am not blaming any truck driver for this accident, but just the presence of a big truck seems to be a contributing factor in accidents at this intersection. Truck drivers used to be considered some of the safest and most courteous drivers on the road. Not so anymore. Some of the most aggressive, arrogant, and lawless drivers I see on a daily basis are driving big rigs.. one of the most annoying peeves to me is the constant ignoring by the trucks of right lane only signs on the bridge. Almost every time I cross that bridge with two way traffic, I see big trucks in the center lane. I can't help but think if I see one or two trucks in the center lane in my five minute trip across the bridge that on a daily basis there must be hundreds. Why in the heck are the transportation police not stopping these trucks and imposing big fines instead of running radar at Cape St. Claire and Kent Narrows? Obviously we must have too many bridge police officers if they have the extra manpower to be enforcing traffic laws several miles to the east and west of the bridge!!
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