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Post by linda712 on Nov 15, 2008 16:52:11 GMT -4
Not at all intending to exclude any of the previous excellent posts, this quoted segment really speaks extremely loudly to me. This is exactly what should be done.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 15, 2008 16:57:48 GMT -4
I agree with that, with the caveat that inconvenient truths should ALWAYS be included, not just for Black History Month. I think we'd be a much better country if we could actually learn from our past because we knew ALL of it, not just the parts that make us look good.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 15, 2008 17:35:16 GMT -4
History is History, and there isn't any changing it. In todays world, and that is where we are TODAY...EVERYONE has equal opportunity to succeed. Those who don't take or make the opportunities only have themselves to blame.
I am so sick of hearing minorities whine about every little thing because it always goes back to "The White Man keeping "everyone down". BULL EFFN MALARKY.
Did people own slaves? Fact. But who sold the people into slavery to beging with? Ummm their own people....
Where the blacks unjustly treated once slavery was aboilishe? Ummmm yes, and so were women, those with handicaps (of all color) and the poor (of all color).
Did segregation happen? Yes it did. Did we somewhat abolish it? Yes we did. Does it still exist today? Yes but not becaue of the White man.
Let's look at the Black American Pagent and BET....God forbid we have a White America pagent again or white entertainment television or white only magazines...because we could be sued.
Let a white person call a black person the n word and see what happens, yet it's ok for a black person to call another black person the N word and nothing is said....
Double Standards....
White male professionals are discriminated against in the work place, because they have to give up positions to so many hispanics, blacks, women, who aren't qualified other than their gender or their color. Yet they have the same opportunity for education to become qualified as the white professional but don't because they play on their minority status.
I am sorry, If you deem your self a minority....but get over it. This is the land of freedom and every CITIZEN (not illegal alien or resident alien) is guaranteed their right to make the choices to have a great life. If you have a sucky life...That's your problem. Instead of whining about it get out and do something about it.
So yes, I think all the "Special History Months" Should go away, and kids in school should be taught about American History....ALL OF IT..The good, the bad, the ugly and the sad....
We are not a perfect country, Nor shall we ever be....But to continue to drive stakes into our Unity is what keeps us divided.
In my opinion, if you are an American.....You are an american. Not black or african american, not asion or midlle eastern american, Just an American...and you should be proud of that.
With that said, you may have have other ethnci cultures and by all means celebrate them and teach your children about them..... But you sure the hell don't hear other countries hyphenating their background. I have yet meet an American Mexican, and American African, and American European.....
Just my opinion.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 15, 2008 17:45:32 GMT -4
But you sure the hell don't hear other countries hyphenating their background. I have yet meet an American Mexican, and American African, and American European..... Of course there are. Kurdish Iraqis, Armenian Lebanese, Armenian Turks, Dutch South Africans, Han Chinese, Palestinian Israeli, German Swiss, French Swiss, Romanian Moldovan, Russian Moldovan, Kurdish Armenian, Tamil Sri Lankans, Tutsi Rwandans, Hutu Rwandans, German Danes, etc... There are over 100 ethnicities in Iraq alone and most African states are made up of dozens of tribes. In fact, most conflicts within countries stem from the different nations/ethnicities that reside within its borders. There are VERY few countries that only have one ethnicity with a very small minority population. The only two that come to mind immediately are Japan and Korea (both North and South). I also think the claim that blacks sold blacks to whites for slavery oversimplifies things. There isn't a tribe of black in Africa, but hundreds of different tribes. Some tribes captured people from other tribes to sell to Europeans. What didn't happen, that I know of, was people selling people from their own tribe.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 16, 2008 8:34:49 GMT -4
As far as your first paragraph goes...perhaps people do that in other countries..I don't know...if so I stand corrected.......
As far as who sold who...African's still sold Africans to other countries including the US.
Not trying to oversimplify anything....but you wanna use slavery as a crutch as to why you can't make it into days world or believe that you are owed something because of it......there is more than American's to blame for that snafu.
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Post by Mike on Nov 16, 2008 10:21:01 GMT -4
Wow -- I knew this before, but Funnel is the most rediculous person I have ever met... I havent heard that "isn't white history month is every month" since like 7th grade when I petitioned my school to have a White History Club.
Wow, just wow.
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Post by jake on Nov 16, 2008 11:22:59 GMT -4
The slavery debt was paid by the 650,000 americans who died during the civil war, Period, Done, put a fork in it!
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Post by island tech on Nov 16, 2008 12:14:23 GMT -4
To say the kids from the "ghetto" don't have the same opportunities as others is slightly true. It's not the kids faults that their parents folded their hands early in life and decided not to work for something more. It's not their fault that they learn at a young age this must be how life is. If you want more get up off your a$$ and work for it. I don't care what race you are as long as you are a legal citizen in this country.
I thought of a great T-shirt to have printed up to wear to the swearing in of Obama.
PULL UP YOUR PANTS, YOU DO HAVE A CHANCE!
Racism is definitely still alive in this country but here's some number's for you. Obama received 13% of his vote from the blacks. So many of the white's today obviously don't let race deter their decisions in life.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 16, 2008 12:37:05 GMT -4
Wow -- I knew this before, but Funnel is the most rediculous person I have ever met... I havent heard that "isn't white history month is every month" since like 7th grade when I petitioned my school to have a White History Club. Wow, just wow. If I'm the most ridiculous (note the spelling) person you've ever met, you need to meet some more interesting people. And I am somehow not shocked that you wanted a White History Club when you were in 7th grade... I wonder what else hasn't changed since then? ;D
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 16, 2008 12:38:17 GMT -4
The slavery debt was paid by the 650,000 americans who died during the civil war, Period, Done, put a fork in it! I don't think I've said that we're indebted to black people because of slavery. I specifically mentioned Jim Crow laws, which only ended a generation or so ago.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 17, 2008 17:41:01 GMT -4
I want to add one more comment. I believe that black history month, like affirmative action, are quick fixes that purport to be solutions without actually solving anything. What I would like to see is history taught in schools that tells the whole, true story, without glossing over bad parts or trying to put the US in the best possible light. I worry that having black history month prevents this change from happening, because people feel like it's been "taken care of". Same thing with affirmative action: the prejudices that prevent minorities from being hired needs to be erased, but forcing minorities to be hired doesn't erase it and, actually, encourages bitterness on the part of non-minorities who feel they've been passed over.
All that being said, I think both black history month and affirmative action are better than doing nothing. But our policy-makers need to realize that both of these should have been quick, band-aid fixes that were only a step on the road to finding better solutions. I don't think either was meant to last indefinitely. But until policy-makers come up with better solutions, I can't advocate abolishing either.
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Post by bluecrabber on Nov 18, 2008 9:41:55 GMT -4
Funnel, do you think sexism is over?
Will it ever be?
Human nature. Can't eliminate prejudice against things that are different from what is comfortable.
But, I will admit it is much harder for kids in the ghettos to succeed in life. It takes a really special personality. But it has little to do with "whitey" holding them back. Those kids are being mentored by their surroundings during the most important formative years. It is really hard to reprogram human values when learned at such an early age.
Here's a radical thought: take the kids out of homes where the environment is not condusive to healthy mental growth. If there are not two parents, or an income greater than four times the minimum wage and a history of stable employment, and no drug history, then take them away and put them in a government run boarding school.
The inconvenient truth is kids grow up to be just like their parents. THey need to be taken away and given a better opportunity to succeed in life.
Best regards, BC
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Post by outlaw on Nov 18, 2008 17:28:12 GMT -4
Here's a radical thought: take the kids out of homes where the environment is not condusive to healthy mental growth. If there are not two parents, or an income greater than four times the minimum wage and a history of stable employment, and no drug history, then take them away and put them in a government run boarding school. If you're not kidding, that's the most asinine thing I have ever read on this forum. Like the government is doing so well with everything else it runs.
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Post by linda712 on Nov 18, 2008 17:38:35 GMT -4
;D Outlaw -- he was not serious!!!!
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Post by outlaw on Nov 18, 2008 18:13:07 GMT -4
Those comments threw me into such a tailspin I could hardly follow the directions on the back of the instant mashed potato box. Surely this qualifies me as an unfit parent! Then it occurred to me, why am I running FROM the boarding school? If the government wants my kids, they can have them. It would seem I need a break. I have no doubt they would be returned within 3 hours, and during my respite I could go to Cracker Barrel and eat their instant potatoes.
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Post by linda712 on Nov 18, 2008 19:49:39 GMT -4
;D ;D ;D ;D I hear ya!!! Tooo funny!!!
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Post by shorti on Nov 18, 2008 20:44:06 GMT -4
I hope BC wasn't serious - cause if that's what he thinks affects mental growth then he is so wrong... so so wrong...
but one the other hand... if kids are in a home w/ drug use/dealers - they should be removed - period the end... mom and/or dad get their crap straight & PROVE IT - then re-evaluate... not oh look they made it thru the 8 week program & move 'em back in... I get some folks make mistakes & turn their lives around - I've seen it first hand... but there are so many that don't and those kids get lost in the system...
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Post by lynn on Nov 22, 2008 13:51:23 GMT -4
Funnel,
Nobody believes that racism has ended, but to keep having Black History Month and Affirmative Action, it is really adding fuel-to-the-fire for all of the sides. Black people are NOT an underdog in our society. They really DO have all of the same opportunities as everyone else. I do understand that because of racism and prejudices, they may need to work a little harder at some things, but they really do have the opportunity to succeed just as everyone else does.
You mentioned the poor black people living in the ghettos, what about the poor white people living in the Appalachians? Many of these people are much worse off than those in the ghettos because they often have no access to running water.
My point is that many people have it hard in life, but those who are really the worst off are those who are living in poverty, whether they are white, black, Hispanic, etc.
I like to do what I can to help the poor, but to classify an entire group and to say that an entire race of people need special help, special acknowledgment for an entire month each year, and special programs such as Affirmative Action is now very Archaic.
When Kennedy started Affirmative Action in 1961, it was a needed program at the time; however it has remained and evolved into a source that really creates additional animosity from all sides.
What we (the American Government) did to the Japanese Americans living in the US during War War II was incredibly wrong. As incredibly wrong as our Government was for its actions at the time, it is a part of our past. I don't know any Japanese people who are seeking reparations for what their ancestors endured or are asking for any special rights or privileges from the government.
Asians and Indians who move to our country are also a minority. Many of them become US citizens and own and operate their own businesses.
I know many of you hate when I generalize, so I will say "many of the people who I know" who are Indians and Asians came to this country with almost nothing and built their lives up from the nothing that they had. They are successful business owners and a couple of my friends are now doctors.
Again, I acknowledge racism exists and it will always exist against someone by someone of a different group. But really now, the only ones holding Black people back are the Black people themselves. I know, I know, some places might discriminate hiring someone because they are black. Yes, that is wrong, but it does happen, it happens for everyone.
Some doors are closed for some groups, while others seem to embrace other groups of people:
You can't be a Flight Attendant if you are fat, but the airlines openly hires Gay men.
BET television does not play music of any white musicians, but MTV plays music videos from all races.
You also can't get a job at Hooters if you don't have big TaTas.
In High School the wimpy guys were often discriminated against because nobody would ever want to pick them (during gym class) to play on their sides. I never heard the wimpy guys whine or cry about discrimination, they all got together and joined the Chess Club. From meeting up with most of these wimpy guys at High School reunions, some are still wimpy, some have really buffed up, but they all seem to have done really well for themselves with their careers.
Back when I was in college, test results and other announcements would be posted right in the hallways of the Lecture Buildings. Our last names would be listed in alphabetical order, along with our complete social security numbers. It was easy to see what everyone got if you knew your their name. I was very upset to see on one of the announcements that I did not make it into a specific program that was being run the next semester. I had scored really high on all of my placement points. According to how many spaces were open in the program and according to my rank, I should have been guaranteed a space in the program. The official letter that I later received stated that placements were based on ranking and "category placements". I called my Department Head up to ask what the heck that meant. He informed me that in order for the school not to be accused of discrimination, it makes sure that it always picks the "percentage of required minorities" first and then they proceed to pick from the submissions of non-minorities.
So, I and along with many other "non-minorities" I knew missed out on this wonderful program because we were not a minority! Here I busted my butt and worked really hard and did everything I could think of to get into this program, but several minorities who filed past the deadline and several other minorities who placed very low in the ranks were accepted into the program!
One of my friends in college who was in several of my classes throughout the years also really resented the entire "minority quota". He is Black and is extremely intelligent and a very hard worker. He placed right around where I did in the ranking system. He was accepted into the program (he deserved to be in the program regardless of any quotas because he ranked so high). He resented the minority quota system because he constantly felt that others had resentment against him and felt he only got into the program because he was Black.
I think it is well beyond the time to stop Black History Month. We should study all cultures in February not just the Black people. Its time to move on. We took the Native American-Indian's land here, we don't talk about them for an entire month, every year at school.
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Post by funnel101 on Nov 22, 2008 15:32:31 GMT -4
You mentioned the poor black people living in the ghettos, what about the poor white people living in the Appalachians? Many of these people are much worse off than those in the ghettos because they often have no access to running water. Thought you might be interested in this news story: from here: www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1822455,00.html Let me state again that I don't think Black History Month OR Affirmative Action are long-term solutions, but I don't see anything better in the works right now. Your point about Native Americans is absolutely correct, Lynn. I think having a month--or more--that focuses on minorities that have been exploited by our government and our society would be wonderful. I think it'd also be good if our high schoolers had to spend at least a semester studying these issues. I do believe that education is the KEY here.
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Post by lynn on Nov 22, 2008 17:00:26 GMT -4
Let me state again that I don't think Black History Month OR Affirmative Action are long-term solutions, but I don't see anything better in the works right now. Your point about Native Americans is absolutely correct, Lynn. I think having a month--or more--that focuses on minorities that have been exploited by our government and our society would be wonderful. I think it'd also be good if our high schoolers had to spend at least a semester studying these issues. I do believe that education is the KEY here. Funnel, I think you misunderstood part of what I am saying. I do agree that education is a key factor here. We should study all of our past, the good and the bad, and we should learn from our mistakes. What we shouldn't do is highlight one minority group each year for an entire month because of the mistakes of some of our ancestors. My ancestors weren't even in the US when slavery was going on. My ancestors moved to the US with very little money and worked hard for everything they had. They never received any handouts and never attended any schools that had a national "immigrant month". Part of the problem is the NAACP and the pressure they put on the rest of the citizens, the government, companies, and organizations. It is difficult sometimes to fire a Black person without some of them claiming it was because of race and calling the NAACP. A White person can be passed for a promotion without citing any reasons; however, if you are going to pass up a Black person for a promotion, you have to be careful and have really good reasons, because some Black people immediately play the race card. I know personally two instances in which terminated employees played the race card and filed law suits. Their races played no part in their terminations. They were fired because they were lazy and unproductive. Other Black people still had their jobs because they weren't lazy and unproductive. Anyway the lazy unproductive Black people filed a lawsuit together against the company. Although the company wasn't in the wrong and all of the other employees at the company knew the company wasn't in the wrong, the company settled the law suit out of court prior to anything ever going to court because they felt that it was cheaper to settle out of court and they didn't want any negative publicity. Black History Month is just an open invitation for some Black people to say "hey, look at me, I've been wronged and everyone else needs to make it right". Black History needs to be studied in schools in History Books along with the history of everything else.... What we don't need to do is to promote the past in such a way that it once again separates their race from all of the other races.
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Post by RobMoore on Nov 22, 2008 22:33:29 GMT -4
Our high schoolers are drawn away from the fundamentals enough as it is. If they are to study any more outside of the traditional history, geography, mathematics, english, science (things that will help them to become intelligent person, able to get a job, keep it, and earn promotion), then they need to learn how we came to be a nation. What core values brought our founding fathers together? What beliefs did they adhere so strongly to that they were willing to oppose THE strongest nation on earth to protect? These lessons are all but forgotten, in favor of side-stories about the various flavors of the month.
Schools and federal employees across the country take off work in celebration of MLK day, but April 19...(arguably the most influential date in our history) passes each year with barely a footnote. Some even remember it only for a tragedy that occurred over 200 years later. Its a sad state our populous is in, reflected in the fact that more people care who won the previous night's local football game than who will be their Senator or Representative.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 25, 2008 9:06:26 GMT -4
April 19th, 1775....wasn't that the start of the Revolutionary War?
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Post by RobMoore on Nov 25, 2008 18:57:48 GMT -4
Yes, in an act of rebellion against british troops trying to seize privately owned weapons.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 29, 2008 8:49:21 GMT -4
ahhhh yea hence the famous poem about Paul Revere.....
One if by land and Two if by Sea......
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Post by twiggy on Dec 30, 2008 15:11:22 GMT -4
So Lynn, if we don't discuss Black history, what should we discuss. Obvisiously educating all about Black history seems to be a threat to you and your little friends. Don't worry! you guys will continue to be heard and seen.. give someone else a chance and find JESUS.
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