|
Post by lynn on Nov 14, 2008 13:48:18 GMT -4
Ok, I know this might seem bad to some and I'm sure I'll get some nasty remarks like I did last time, but I want to know what you all think.
Now that we have an elected black President, can we stop with the whole "Black History Month" at the schools?
I have no problem with the children learning about Martin Luther King and learning the significance of what he did, but I do have a problem with how he gets more recognition at the schools than any of our Presidents get. The children learn about Martin Luther King the week before his birthday and the holiday to know why we are getting the day off. Then during the entire month of February it is "Black History Month" and we discuss famous blacks including Martin Luther King again.
I completely understand Kings importance and role in history and the history of black people in our country. I think this should definitely be included in our history books while studying the US' history but I feel this is time for us to move on now.
I believe (and so do many of my friends) that if we want to have a month of studying cultures and ancestories, that it should be that of studying everyones culture and ancestory. Lets make it a Culture Month. We can study Black/Africans, Europeans, Asians, etc.. Or, we can study specific countries of where the children or their ancestors are from.... Germany, Mexico, etc..
None of us have ever mentioned this to the BOE because we don't want to be the first people to do so in such a small area because we don't want to be labeled "racists" because we are not. We just feel that everyone's culture and heritage is just as important as all of the others.
What do you all think? Is it time to stop the "Black History Month"?
|
|
|
Post by funnel101 on Nov 14, 2008 14:01:04 GMT -4
No. Just because we'll have a black President doesn't mean racism is over in this country.
|
|
|
Post by davieq on Nov 14, 2008 14:02:34 GMT -4
Technically, every month is a "history month" for a different group. There is Asian-Pacific Islander month, women's history month, gay/lesbian month, people with disabilities month, etc., etc. Black History month just gets the most attention for a variety of reasons including blacks actively promoting it. It may seem longer to many simply because in January there is MLK Day and then only a few weeks later Black History month. By celebrating the month it is a way to increase tolerance as well as build up the confidence of a group of people who in many cases need that "way to go". That's my take on it.
|
|
|
Post by AquaHolic on Nov 14, 2008 14:04:33 GMT -4
Lynn... I totally agree with you...and I am not a racist either... Barb
|
|
|
Post by AquaHolic on Nov 14, 2008 14:08:08 GMT -4
No. Just because we'll have a black President doesn't mean racism is over in this country. Racism will never be over in the country...I was told once that I was a racist because I am White....So as long as that attitude is rampant....racism will be alive. I was not raised to be a racist...there are just as many idiots of every color. Barb
|
|
|
Post by speedergurl68 on Nov 14, 2008 14:25:41 GMT -4
there are just as many idiots of every color. Barb AMEN.
|
|
|
Post by lynn on Nov 14, 2008 15:54:41 GMT -4
Technically, every month is a "history month" for a different group. There is Asian-Pacific Islander month, women's history month, gay/lesbian month, people with disabilities month, etc., etc. Black History month just gets the most attention for a variety of reasons including blacks actively promoting it. It may seem longer to many simply because in January there is MLK Day and then only a few weeks later Black History month. By celebrating the month it is a way to increase tolerance as well as build up the confidence of a group of people who in many cases need that "way to go". That's my take on it. I didn't know about all of those other months. I do believe that Black History Month is the only one recognized by the schools. Do black people really need their confidence built up? IMO, I don't thinks so. If its a general concern of people being racists or a concern about the people not being sensitive to the people with disabilities or the gay people... why don't we just give the children some lessons on sensitivity to people who are different?
|
|
|
Post by shoreterp on Nov 14, 2008 16:38:22 GMT -4
No. Just because we'll have a black President doesn't mean racism is over in this country. What in the world does Black History Month have to do with "racism in this country"? Every month should be American History Month. Forget this crap about focussing on one ethnic group over another. I'm still in disbelief that my 8 year old knows who George Washington Carver is but can't tell me anything about Thomas Alva Edison, Thomas Jefferson, or any other "evil white males" in American History. It's a d**n shame if you ask me.
|
|
|
Post by kl on Nov 14, 2008 16:41:56 GMT -4
Or Hispanic Month, or.....
|
|
|
Post by bchevy on Nov 14, 2008 18:15:22 GMT -4
No. Just because we'll have a black President doesn't mean racism is over in this country. What in the world does Black History Month have to do with "racism in this country"? Try to start WHITE history month and you find out.
|
|
|
Post by funnel101 on Nov 14, 2008 18:24:43 GMT -4
Isn't it white history month every other month of the year? The whole point of black history month, or other minority history months, is that their histories tend not to take up as much space, if any, in history books or classes.
Let me just toss out an example. European History is a pretty standard high school history course, right? How about Middle Eastern history? African history? East-Asian history? West-asian history?
European history was a requirement when I was in high school. Is it not now?
|
|
|
Post by shorti on Nov 14, 2008 18:31:16 GMT -4
I dunno funnel...
my son is taking world history in school now & they are studying different religions/cultures... which touches on different races... if you know what i mean?
I agree w/ Barb & second SG68's AMEN... racism is alive & well in this country because a few loud idiots choose to act like morons...
|
|
|
Post by funnel101 on Nov 14, 2008 18:40:24 GMT -4
The problem is that it's not just a few loud idiots. It's systemic. A white felon has a better chance of being hired than a black law-abiding candidate. Don't believe me? Here's a link to the study... and this study was done in New York City in 2004, a rather diverse city and fairly recently: www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdfI'm sorry if I'm getting upset about this. I wish I could believe that you all were right, but I've read too much to believe that racism is just an isolated problem. Check out the book "Lifting the White Veil"; it's got a lot of good information in it.
|
|
|
Post by linda712 on Nov 14, 2008 19:05:42 GMT -4
Well...My personal opinion is, quite frankly, that I get very upset and am sick and tired of hearing black this, black that, sensitivity to this, sensitivity to that, racism this and racism that. I believe the major reason racism continues today is because it's constantly shoved down our throats and in our faces that it does, in fact, still exist so, therefore, it shall continue to exist. I'm sick to death of quotas this and quotas that, minority this and minority that, studies this and studies that. I'm sick to death of slaves this and slaves that, of back seats in buses, of designated drinking fountains, of hangings. Ya know, white alleged witches were hung, too. crap happens -- it's over -- move on. Shut up. The last time I checked, this country was called America, i.e., the UNITED States, an inherent smelting pot from centuries ago, formed by all ethnic groups traversing unchartered oceans looking for a better life in unknown territory. No one promised them a rose garden. If they fail, they fail. They need to pick themselves up by their boot straps, dust themselves off, and get on with it. We all have the same constitutional rights and opportunities to live our lives to the best of our individual abilities. There's equal amounts of white/red/blue,purple/black "trash" in our society today and if that segment -- in it's entirety -- chooses to not to partake in educational benefits which includes properly speaking the English language clearly and concisely so people can understand what the hell they're trying to say, and how to logically think (like with a brain), then that's their problem through their own lack of self worth and ignorance. On the flip side, there's equal amounts of white/red/blue/purple/black successful citizens who have made their mark in society and are doing quite well.
I'm just sick and tired of people being stuck on stupid and stuck in a time warp.
|
|
|
Post by funnel101 on Nov 14, 2008 19:15:08 GMT -4
The point I was trying to make is that it's NOT over. If it were, I'd agree, let's move on. I'm glad you live in such a world that everyone has the same rights and opportunities. It doesn't seem to be the same world I live in, however. And the fact that you think a child born into a family living in a ghetto going to an inner-city school has the same opportunities as a kid growing up in, say, Hunt Valley is mind-numbing. We *DON'T* all have the same opportunities. To say that we do is a shocking display of ignorance about pretty much, well, everything. And with that, I'm done with this thread. I am getting too frustrated. You all know what I think and I don't seem to be getting through. And wait a minute: What? What ethnic groups, other than Europeans, were here by choice centuries ago when we still had "unchartered oceans... unknown territory"?
|
|
|
Post by linda712 on Nov 14, 2008 19:29:21 GMT -4
Sorry funnel -- you can disagree and smite, too. Apparently, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Those are my thoughts and I'm sticking with them. Enough is enough.
|
|
|
Post by jake on Nov 14, 2008 20:57:05 GMT -4
Ah, white guilt is alive and well in America, as this past election proves.
|
|
|
Post by AquaHolic on Nov 14, 2008 21:27:45 GMT -4
Well...My personal opinion is, quite frankly, that I get very upset and am sick and tired of hearing black this, black that, sensitivity to this, sensitivity to that, racism this and racism that. I believe the major reason racism continues today is because it's constantly shoved down our throats and in our faces that it does, in fact, still exist so, therefore, it shall continue to exist. I'm sick to death of quotas this and quotas that, minority this and minority that, studies this and studies that. I'm sick to death of slaves this and slaves that, of back seats in buses, of designated drinking fountains, of hangings. Ya know, white alleged witches were hung, too. crap happens -- it's over -- move on. Shut up. The last time I checked, this country was called America, i.e., the UNITED States, an inherent smelting pot from centuries ago, formed by all ethnic groups traversing unchartered oceans looking for a better life in unknown territory. No one promised them a rose garden. If they fail, they fail. They need to pick themselves up by their boot straps, dust themselves off, and get on with it. We all have the same constitutional rights and opportunities to live our lives to the best of our individual abilities. There's equal amounts of white/red/blue,purple/black "trash" in our society today and if that segment -- in it's entirety -- chooses to not to partake in educational benefits which includes properly speaking the English language clearly and concisely so people can understand what the hell they're trying to say, and how to logically think (like with a brain), then that's their problem through their own lack of self worth and ignorance. On the flip side, there's equal amounts of white/red/blue/purple/black successful citizens who have made their mark in society and are doing quite well. I'm just sick and tired of people being stuck on stupid and stuck in a time warp. EXACTLY! Barb
|
|
|
Post by AquaHolic on Nov 14, 2008 21:40:19 GMT -4
The point I was trying to make is that it's NOT over. If it were, I'd agree, let's move on. I'm glad you live in such a world that everyone has the same rights and opportunities. It doesn't seem to be the same world I live in, however. And the fact that you think a child born into a family living in a ghetto going to an inner-city school has the same opportunities as a kid growing up in, say, Hunt Valley is mind-numbing. We *DON'T* all have the same opportunities. To say that we do is a shocking display of ignorance about pretty much, well, everything. And with that, I'm done with this thread. I am getting too frustrated. You all know what I think and I don't seem to be getting through. And wait a minute: What? What ethnic groups, other than Europeans, were here by choice centuries ago when we still had "unchartered oceans... unknown territory"? But you see funnel....if I am called a racist because I am white and have Never once done anything to deserve to be called that...then who is the racist? Its the black person who called me a racist...but its okay for her to call me that because she is black. Its a double standard and not fair. I am not responsible for anyone but myself...if the person choses to NOT take advantage of the opportunities out there...its not my fault because I am white and did. If a person decides..okay..I am from the ghetto (by the way I absolutely hate that word)...and go to an inner city school...so I am going to go on welfare and have 10 kids and have the state support me...that is Their problem....and of course mine because I will be paying for those kids in my taxes. My parents were Extremely poor....my dad only went to school until 8th grade...my mom never graduated...they couldn't...they had to work to survive. Did those facts stop them from making something of themselves? NO...my dad went into the Navy and then after 25 years worked for NSA...I believe alot of the issues that surround a person who is not succeeding is all the Excuses they make to not succeed. (Now...I am not talking about disabled people) Perfect example of a ghetto living person making it "OPRAH"...there are alot more out there that are living well respected lives and raising their families. Deep breath Funnel....its only a discussion...and I am not meaning to be mean to you. Barb
|
|
|
Post by bluecrabber on Nov 14, 2008 22:21:04 GMT -4
Funnel.. I understand your frustration, but you are not letting logic cloud your thinking.. Racism, or the perception of racism is merely a human emotion. It is natural for humans to lash out at anything different from themselves. It is not always malicious or long lasting. It is just emotion. Unfortunately, there are some who take advantage of human emotion. Let me give you some examples: A man and woman can be madly in love one day and the next be ready to kill each other. When a woman gets mad at a man, a typical lashing out cry might be "stupid jerk". Or a man lashing out at a woman (even the one he supposedly loves) is typically a "miserable b....tch. Do these temporary emotional outbreaks mean that the men involved hate women? Or that the women involved hate men? Are they sexists? In either case, the temporary lashing out is emotion. I am sure if you think about you can identify many examples... Mothers lashing out at their own children.. screaming you little brat! Does this temporary emotional outbreak mean the mothers hate their own children? Or that the mothers are anti-kids? Drivers lashing out at other drivers.. sometimes to the point of physcial violence. And, when the appearance of the offender is different, normal human emotion is to "label" the offending person, eg. "dumb-a.. woman!" "dumb- a.. N... .." "dumb-a@@ J.." I hope you get my point. Just because during the heat of the moment a "human" lashes out at another human with a racial slur or epithet does not mean the lasher is a racist. Just human. During the recent election, over 90% of all blacks voted for Obama. Do you think it was because they are racist or simply more comfortable with someone who is like them? I am willing to give the black population of this country the benefit of the doubt.. I think they voted for Obama because he is one of them, not just because he was black.. does that make sense? And while we are on the subject, do you think we can ever have harmony between the races, or religious sects, when the basic set of man and woman cannot get along? The best we can hope for is mutual respect and tolerance. Peace Funnel.. I don't think there are any malicious people on this board.. might be a few loonies, but no bad people here. Best regards, BC
|
|
|
Post by shorti on Nov 14, 2008 23:06:18 GMT -4
Funnel...
Perhaps I didn't come across right... "the few" I speak of that are "loud" are ones like Al Sharpton... Jesse Jackson... or anyone who steps forward & says they are held down by the "white man" THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY! and that's makes them just as racist as those who do the opposite...
Do I think that racism is alive & rampant? sure I do.. but I also believe that we as a country have COME SO FAR...
Do I think that slavery was a good thing??? Absolutely not...
Do I think that blacks or other minorities should have the same rights as whites? Of Course...
But to say that a kid growing up in the "ghetto" and going to "inner city schools" don't have the same opportunities that my kid does - I don't agree... There are SO many stories out there that could prove that wrong... They have the same opportunities... they just may have to work harder for it because it's not on the corner... BUT they also have to have a DESIRE to want to get out of a bad situation... if they follow those that are taking the wrong path - then that is NOT MY FAULT... Every child has the ability to get a decent (not necessarily great) education - but it takes work... no different than a mentally challenged child having to work harder to make good grades... Are there bad areas where it makes it harder - of course there are... I'm not discrediting that they will face more challenges than my kid will... but if they don't have the DESIRE & the HEART & DETERMINATION to do it - they never will.. those that do - go on to be successful...
What makes e angry - fuming actually - are those that think I owe them something because my ancestors ancestors did a terrible thing to their ancestors ancestors... BS Plain and simple... OR those that say because of slavery or whatever is their crutch - and not to be so offensive but that's all that is - A CRUTCH - AN EXCUSE... please help me...
well I can tell you that although I grew up "well off" better than alot of folks... it wasn't a wonderful childhood... and if I were one of those that would use that as an excuse - I'd be an entirely different person... our experiences make us who we are - i agree with that... but it's how you apply those experiences to your life that makes you or breaks you... I also have struggled being a single mom for many years & when I went to see if I could get some assistance _ i was told no... but if I had quit my job & did nothing - I could get everything... so the system makes the situation you speak of (growing up in the ghetto) easier than making the "right" choices...
Racism sucks... but what Sequel says speaks alot of truth.... and for those of you who know me - I have a bi-racial child... who has had to deal with this crap before... and will forever I'm sure...
|
|
|
Post by dej on Nov 15, 2008 2:06:01 GMT -4
No. Just because we'll have a black President doesn't mean racism is over in this country. You're correct. For every David Duke, there's also a Louis Farrakhan. Just because the KKK has been around longer than the Nation of Islam is not justification to elevate anyone's racial history to a special status, Shoreterp hit on a good point. My grandkids know all about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, but next to nothing about the Union leaders of the Civil War. They know about Crispus Attucks in the Boston Massacre, but never heard of the Green Mountain Boys, or Marion Francis, the Swamp Fox. They know about George Washington Carver and all the uses he found for the peanut, but they've never hear of Robert Fulton,and Ben Franklin was just some fat old white guy that flew a kite in a storm. While it is true that many slaves were brought here against their will, that ended 200 hundred years ago, when Congress enacted laws banning importation of slaves in 1794 and 1808. Somehow this part of history is usually overlooked during Black History Month. I guess nobody wants to teach that some of those old dead white men did have a conscience. I also find it interesting that Black History Month often overlooks the most basic part of the slave trade. While my grandsons know that European traders, particularly the Portuguese, were instrumental in the international slave trade, it was not mentioned that most of the slaves exported were captured & sold into slavery by their fellow Africans, since most white slave traders lacked the nerve to go beyond the coastal forts set up in Africa. If we are going to have a Black History Month, maybe it should also include some of the "inconvenient truths" also. As for every month being a white or European history month, excluding areas like Asia and the Middle East, either you went through history classes much earlier than I did or you weren't paying attention. In the early 70's I was taught about things like the Great Wall of China, the invention of gunpowder, Arab contributions to mathematics, and the Persian & Mongol empires. I even learned these things without special months for them!!!
|
|
|
Post by dej on Nov 15, 2008 4:41:07 GMT -4
But to say that a kid growing up in the "ghetto" and going to "inner city schools" don't have the same opportunities that my kid does - I don't agree... There are SO many stories out there that could prove that wrong... They have the same opportunities... they just may have to work harder for it because it's not on the corner... BUT they also have to have a DESIRE to want to get out of a bad situation... if they follow those that are taking the wrong path - then that is NOT MY FAULT... Every child has the ability to get a decent (not necessarily great) education - but it takes work... no different than a mentally challenged child having to work harder to make good grades... Are there bad areas where it makes it harder - of course there are... I'm not discrediting that they will face more challenges than my kid will... but if they don't have the DESIRE & the HEART & DETERMINATION to do it - they never will.. those that do - go on to be successful... What makes e angry - fuming actually - are those that think I owe them something because my ancestors ancestors did a terrible thing to their ancestors ancestors... BS Plain and simple... OR those that say because of slavery or whatever is their crutch - and not to be so offensive but that's all that is - A CRUTCH - AN EXCUSE... please help me... Shorti, my sentiments exactly. I remember a few years ago during one of them many discussions about how unfair things like SAT tests were, an example about "regattas" was tossed out as an example of using words that may be unfamiliar to inner city kids. I never saw one either growing up, but through this stuff called "reading" I had become familiar with words like that before I took an SAT test (with no special tutoring beforehand either!). I wasn't exactly brought up in privileged circumstances. My dad worked on a factory loading dock during the day and pumped gas at night, and my mom was a grocery store cashier. Because of their willingness to work for what they wanted, by the time I was a teenager, they managed to buy a little rancher in a subdivision, and we always took some sort of vacation (camping because hotel costs would have made the trip impossible). I was the first in my family to attend college, and they didn't pay for it. As for "ancestor guilt", my conscience is clear. My father's family emigrated from Mecklenburg to Wisconsin in the 1870's, after the Civil. They were unskilled laborers, "day workers" (much like many Hispanic immigrants today). They took whatever work they could find until they could afford to buy enough land to farm and raise livestock. My mother's family emigrated to Illinois in the 1850's, but no oppression by them either, unless you count the couple of ancestors, who as privates in the Union infantry, were part of Sherman's march through Georgia & the Carolinas. I have experienced "reverse discrimination" but did not let it "victimize" me or cripple my efforts to advance myself. It's nearly impossible to change racist attitudes, regardless of which race they eminate from, so you have accept it as a fact of life (at least until we all reach a utopian paradise), deal with it and move on.
|
|
|
Post by News Buff on Nov 15, 2008 9:33:12 GMT -4
Are you seriusly calling the history of racism in this country temporary?
|
|
|
Post by falgar25 on Nov 15, 2008 10:06:05 GMT -4
Hopefully, racism in this country was temporary (or is heading that way). To say that there never was racism or discrimination is ignorant. To claim that it is as pervasive today as it was just 40 years ago is equally ignorant.
There absolutely are racists in this country today, and they come in a variety of colors. The people who voted for Obama because of his race are no less racists than those who voted against him because of his race. Unfortunately, both groups were represented earlier this month.
|
|