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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 22:48:42 GMT -4
Did hear about what happened in Elkridge to this family. How can these things happen. Isn't there some type of surveillance done prior to these raids. Is it really that hard to determine the good guys from the bad guys. Can you even imagine this taking place in your own home.
I have a family, I have pets and I have guns....If this occurred at my house by error, it could turn out bad for everyone and I would probably end up shot thinking I'm defending my home from criminals. Where are the rights of the people.
Pete....where are you.
Dog Killed In Home Search, Owner Files Complaint Reporting Kelly McPherson ELKRIDGE, Md. (WJZ) ¯
Police in Howard County serve a search warrant in Elkridge looking for weapons and ammo, but the homeowner says it was the wrong house. Now, the family dog is dead.
Police in Howard County serve a search warrant in Elkridge looking for weapons and ammo.
But as Kelly McPherson reports, the homeowner says it was the wrong house, and now the family dog is dead.
No one was arrested at the end of the raid, but the homeowner is filing a complaint against the police saying his family was abused. He says his 12-year-old daughter was handcuffed while their dog was killed.
A bullet hole shows where Noah the dog was fatally shot during a Howard County police raid last month.
Police had a no-knock clause warrant. That means they didn't have to knock or say they were with the police, and that's because they were looking for firearms they thought were in the home.
The warrant lists guns, ammo and police gear that they believed Mike Hasenei's stepson stole, but the stepson hasn't lived there in three years.
It's just Hasenei, his wife and 12-year-old daughter. Hasenei says they were traumatized as they waited in handcuffs with guns pointed at them. "I told them, you can search the whole entire house. There's the key to the shed, go ahead and check the shed. They checked my vehicles. I told them, you're not going to find anything here. I don't commit crimes," said Hasenei.
Hasenei says when the team burst into his living room, his two dogs ran to the bedroom. "The little dog was under the bed, the big dog was on the bed. When he approached inside the room, the dog never got off the bed. He shot the dog three times," said Hasenei. "The officers would need to be feeling threatened by the animal. The animal would need to act in a way that was aggressive, charging or lunging at the officer," said Sherry Llewellyn, Howard County Police spokesperson.
A similar raid gone bad happened last summer to a Prince George's County mayor.
That mayor is lobbying Maryland's legislature to require monthly civilian reviews of all SWAT teams.
There is now an investigation into whether the team was justified in shooting Noah.
Hasenei is also filing a suit because he and his lawyer believe the warrant used was changed at the last minute and therefore not valid in the first place.
Howard County police say the investigation is still open, meaning the dangerous weapons are most likely still out on the street.
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Post by AquaHolic on Feb 7, 2009 13:03:10 GMT -4
Ugh...this is so scary. I found someone with the same name as my son (middle name is different..and he is much older then my son) who has OUR address listed as theirs. I even had a PI come to my house looking for this person. I told him that he had the wrong person. I have asked that my address be removed from this persons information..but it still is there. So what happens if they decide to raid my house based on the address. My dog would surely attack them...I am so irritated that they have not removed my address from this low lifes file on the Judiciary site...I need to complain to someone else. Barb
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Post by bluecrabber on Feb 7, 2009 16:12:43 GMT -4
Just think how bad it could be if your name was John Smith? Sometimes it seems like we are at the mercy of idiots.. I got into a heated exchange with a Barney Fife U.S. Customs Agent several years ago at the Canada/US border. I was going hunting in New Brunswick. To carry firearms into Canada you have to fill out a declaration form that includes the make, model, serial number of the firearm. The Customs guy checks the Government database of stolen firearms. They have a record in the database that describes a stolen shotgun only by the make and model. They did not have a serial number in the database. Remember, they probably made at least a million of these shotguns.. He starts to question me about where I got the shotgun and grabs it out of my hands and takes it into the back room.. For those of you who are not following this story, here's an analogy: You show up at the border driving a Chevy Malibu. They have a report of a stolen Chevy Malibu.. no tag number, no VIN, no year, no color, just a Chevy Malibu. Since you are driving one, they seize your car and place you under arrest.. It took another Customs Agent with a slightly larger IQ number to take over and return my shotgun.. Best regards, BC
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Post by pete1 on Feb 7, 2009 17:31:34 GMT -4
mj.......The police in this country are out of control. With the protection of the courts, the politicians, and the so called descent citizens they are violating our Constitutional Rights. I am not saying that every cop is a bad guy, but I'll say that the good cops don't have the balls to stand up and be counted. It's obvious in this case that the cops lied under oath to obtain the no knock warrant.......Check out my thread on the $210 million law suit in Balto. City.
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Post by cheapshotartist on Feb 7, 2009 18:42:06 GMT -4
Don't forget the 80 year old man that the Queen Anne's County Sheriff Department here beat up (by mistake ) in the Town of Centreville last year while serving a warrant. Seems as though they mistook him for the 25 year old person the warrant was issued for! Hmmmm, didn't see that one on the Sheriff's PR, ooops I mean daily News Releases! I will hold judgement on this one though until all the facts are out. I will say though that the police usually do get it right but not in these cases.
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Post by pete1 on Feb 7, 2009 19:08:56 GMT -4
Don't for get 76 year old Harry Davidson who was shot in the back five times with a taser gun by 280 pound crime fighter Sgt. Sonny Jones and his back up Dep. Copper. Harry was walking away from these two hero's when shot. Dangerous Harry weighed in at 140 lbs., and was being treated for a heart condition. Sgt. Jones was also responsible for the retarded kid being shot by the cops on the Kent Narrows Bridge.
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Post by RobMoore on Feb 8, 2009 8:48:06 GMT -4
One of the many reasons I hate no-knock warrants. There is no excuse for an officer dressed in SWAT gear, with 8 or more of his buddies around, to feel he is in danger of death or seriously bodily injury from a Dog. He wouldn't be allowed to shoot a man running at him yelling. He would have to use the control tactics taught to him for such situations. Maybe it is time the police are taught how to subdue a dog other than pumping the pooch full of bullets.
Did the article say what the police were looking for? My money is on drugs. There is no drug bust worth the risk to lives that no-knock warrants impose. If you can't find another way to make a worthwhile arrest with the corresponding evidence intact, than you need to hire more intelligent people.
I just know someday one of these botched jobs is going to result in the illegal break-in of a perfectly law abiding citizen's home, who will not know what is going on in his dazed half-asleep state, when he kills the first 1 or 2 officers through his bedroom door with his home defense gun. He will then either be killed by the rest, or arrested and now have to defend his life and freedom going broke on lawyer fees because the police made a mistake.
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Post by bluecrabber on Feb 8, 2009 9:43:15 GMT -4
mj.......The police in this country are out of control. Pete1, on this we are in complete agreement. It makes me shudder when I watch the Cops show on TV and see the officers tackling someone and taking them to the ground with knees in the back and twisting arms behind them.. sometimes for what seems to be a minor infraction.. and this is with the tv cameras rolling.. what do you think happens when the cameras are off? However, I don't fault the police entirely. Society in general has forced the police departments to change tactics. You know all too well that community policing and "your" neighborhood as a foot patrolman is no longer the environment police officers work in. Tactics have been changed to a take charge of the situation immediately.. even if that includes physical force. Cuuf em and stuff em.. let the Sergeant or the courts decide later who is the bad guy. Unfortunately, sometimes a minor infraction or a case of mistaken identity ends up with an innocent citizen being severely injured by being taken to the ground and cuffed with their hands behind their backs. I don't blame the police, if I were an officer I would have probably shot several of the idiots I have seen over the years before I risk injury or death to myself. Seems to me there is no easy fix. Most of the people the police deal with on a daily basis are the really bad guys. Just a shame that once in a while an innocent citizen gets caught up in the officer's adrenalin rush to protect himself and his fellow officers. What's the fix? Best regards, BC
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Post by linda712 on Feb 8, 2009 12:21:45 GMT -4
What's the fix? Well, this speaks loudly to me as a starting point to seriously consider. I agree with robmoore here -- if it hasn't already, it surely will happen. And I know if this happened in my home, with my family, and my DOG --which I would have anniliated the officer first and foremost for in the most vicious female outlashing like he's never seen -- and I had a gun sitting next to me, and I had the wherewithall about me in such a situation, I would shoot to kill. And it would be just as justifiable as those officers' actions. So be it.
And if they kill me, my personal quest would be to return and haunt them mercilously for the rest of their natural lives......
This makes me very, very angry. How dare them violate my home, my family, my animals, and me. They better get their crap to together -- THEY are not above the law, no matter how ignorantly it's written. My take.
P.S. I did NOT type "crap".
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Post by pete1 on Feb 8, 2009 18:16:13 GMT -4
What's the fix?.......The law must be enforced with JUSTICE from the President down to the Dog Catcher. Also, you have to hire the right person for the job. The guy who couldn't make the football team or get a girl friend, and has never been in a fist fight is now the Cop. Example: Sergeant Sonny (Big Ears Bunny) Jones..........If you check the stats you'll see that the Cops are killing citizens at a disproportionate rate to the Cops being killed. Why? They don't mess with the bad guy unless they are forced to. Give John Wayne a gun and badge and the bad guy has a big problem. Give the gun and badge to Mr. Peepers and he shoots first then lies about it later.........The good Cops need the courage to stand up and be counted, and so do the good citizens.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 22:02:35 GMT -4
Off subject here, but hey.....it was my thread. Pete's been registered for what, a month with 46 posts and he has -22 karma already.....What's that all about?
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Post by cheapshotartist on Feb 8, 2009 22:13:17 GMT -4
After having some of the family down from the Western Shore and going to the Cracker Barrel we all came over to our place. My uncle was reading some of the comments on the forum and in particular this thread. He just laughed and said this kind of stuff is nothing compared to the stuff a lot of the guys he worked with in Baltimore City got away with in the 70's and 80's. He was saying that if a person even attempted to hit an officer, that officer had better gotten his "licks in" before he took the person to the station or his Sergeant would really be mad. He said it was common practice amongst other things for the officer to get "street justice". He retired from the city police in 1995.
So I guess in the end, this is nothing new, has never been acceptable but unfortunately, as any totally honest officer will tell you, this kind of stuff has unfortunately gone on a long time.
I guess if we think we have it bad, take a look at the police in other countries, YIKES! I'll take my chances here in the U.S. thank you.
It may not be a perfect system but it is a hect of a lot better than the rest of the world.
I have to admit that my encounters with the police though not an everyday occurance, has always been positive. Just my opinion!
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Post by RobMoore on Feb 8, 2009 22:45:43 GMT -4
I'd actually get a lot less heartburn over some baltimoron thug taking a quick beating before processing than I do someone's pet being needlessly killed.
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Post by cheapshotartist on Feb 9, 2009 1:13:28 GMT -4
Oh I agree on that!
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Post by falgar25 on Feb 9, 2009 7:36:24 GMT -4
I guess if we think we have it bad, take a look at the police in other countries, YIKES! I'll take my chances here in the U.S. thank you. It may not be a perfect system but it is a hect of a lot better than the rest of the world. That's why we consider ourselves better than the rest of the world - that kind of stuff doesn't happen here. And that's why it makes me so angry when stuff like that *does* happen here - maybe we aren't so much better after all. My experiences have been the same. Fortunately, the bad incidents we hear about seem to be very rare.
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Post by Frank on Feb 9, 2009 10:24:44 GMT -4
Don't for get 76 year old Harry Davidson who was shot in the back five times with a taser gun by 280 pound crime fighter Sgt. Sonny Jones and his back up Dep. Copper. Harry was walking away from these two hero's when shot. Dangerous Harry weighed in at 140 lbs., and was being treated for a heart condition. Sgt. Jones was also responsible for the retarded kid being shot by the cops on the Kent Narrows Bridge. I talked to Sonny and other officers about this incident. It was the right thing to do. The police were there for a firearms incident. The man refused to comply and turned to go back in the house. If he had a gun inside the door, he could have been killed instead of the non-lethal tazing he received. Kudo's to those police officers. Back on topic, it's a shame the dog had to be killed.
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Post by cheapshotartist on Feb 9, 2009 11:40:22 GMT -4
I remember in the late 70's a trooper went to a call about a neighborhood dispute in a little town called Brookview in Dorchester County.
The trooper, Mills I believe his name was, talked to an older man whom he knew and had dealt with many times before. The man said he was always having problems with his neighbors. As he was walking away from this mans residence after talking to him, the man the trooper thought he knew, shot him in the back as he walked away with a rifle and killed him. I was young at the time but I will always remember that. Some of the conversations on this forum unfortunately remind me of that aweful day.
I guess a police officer just never knows.
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Post by my2cents on Feb 9, 2009 19:49:07 GMT -4
Police agencies are recruiting all the time. If you think you have what it takes .... They always say the cop has a moment to make a life or death decision and the public has months to analyze the incident and decided how it should have been done. And while there maybe a few bad apples in the bag, lumping the whole in with them is wrong. Try supporting the local police and yes asking hard questions when necessary, or maybe try a ride along on a Friday or Saturday night. I think you would be shocked at what the position requires. And yes before you ask, my father was a policeman. It's a thin blue line!
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Post by pete1 on Feb 9, 2009 22:45:49 GMT -4
Frank.......An unarmed 76 yr. old man with a heart condition shot in the back 5 times with a taser is horrible police work. A call over the air is not probable cause unless that call is for a felony called in by a police with first hand knowledge. Police receive many unfounded calls for service, and calls to locations that don't exist. The force used by the police should not exceed what is necessary to solve the problem. You don't need a baseball bat to kill a fly.
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Post by AquaHolic on Feb 10, 2009 5:01:38 GMT -4
Off subject here, but hey.....it was my thread. Pete's been registered for what, a month with 46 posts and he has -22 karma already.....What's that all about? He is a very popular person...who posted here long before he registered...Some of his posts while they may ramble...there are some that really make you think about things...I will leave it at that
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Post by emsguru on Feb 10, 2009 7:16:40 GMT -4
Maybe when the police say "put your hands up" they need to change it to say "put your hand up! and Do you have a heart condition?"
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Post by linda712 on Feb 10, 2009 10:43:11 GMT -4
I'm a thinkin' this thread is getting a bit far afield.....it started out focusing on a no-knock warrant, busting in a WRONG house, and shooting an innocent family's dog.
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