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Post by RobMoore on Oct 5, 2009 22:32:30 GMT -4
Yeah, but I don't think that is a bad thing. We've covered all the current material on the health care issue a few times over.
There might be more stuff in the months to come, and I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'm a little wore out on this issue for the time being.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 5, 2009 22:49:09 GMT -4
Yeah, but I don't think that is a bad thing. We've covered all the current material on the health care issue a few times over. There might be more stuff in the months to come, and I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'm a little wore out on this issue for the time being. ME TOO!!! Same topic (even one thread that I started...) and still no real answers. Makes my head hurt after a while
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 6, 2009 14:06:20 GMT -4
Yeah, but I don't think that is a bad thing. We've covered all the current material on the health care issue a few times over. There might be more stuff in the months to come, and I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'm a little wore out on this issue for the time being. At some point, people just end up repeating arguments. I'm also tired of talking about this, for a while at least. ;D
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Post by stephadele on Oct 8, 2009 0:37:52 GMT -4
But isnt it amazing that the same people who yell they dont want the govt controlling their healthcare have no problem with a business controlling their healthcare...and wasting money unregulated and unchecked and milking them for all its worth.. It seems its okay for Blue Cross Blue Shield to decide what kind of care they get and determine what kind of decisions their doctors and healthcare providers are allowed to make...Why? Wasted money is wasted money, whether in the form of privatized managed care or the govt. Why would someone idolize business when it wastes their own money and denies them care? I dont see them asking the hard questions here or speaking to healthcare providers about whats really going on behind closed doors...I think they would be shocked by what they knew versus what the media and politicians feed them on Faux News.
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Post by moosie on Oct 8, 2009 14:10:19 GMT -4
But isnt it amazing that the same people who yell they dont want the govt controlling their healthcare have no problem with a business controlling their healthcare...and wasting money unregulated and unchecked and milking them for all its worth.. It seems its okay for Blue Cross Blue Shield to decide what kind of care they get and determine what kind of decisions their doctors and healthcare providers are allowed to make...Why? Wasted money is wasted money, whether in the form of privatized managed care or the govt. Why would someone idolize business when it wastes their own money and denies them care? I dont see them asking the hard questions here or speaking to healthcare providers about whats really going on behind closed doors...I think they would be shocked by what they knew versus what the media and politicians feed them on Faux News. 'tis true.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 8, 2009 15:24:05 GMT -4
But isnt it amazing that the same people who yell they dont want the govt controlling their healthcare have no problem with a business controlling their healthcare...and wasting money unregulated and unchecked and milking them for all its worth.. It seems its okay for Blue Cross Blue Shield to decide what kind of care they get and determine what kind of decisions their doctors and healthcare providers are allowed to make...Why? Wasted money is wasted money, whether in the form of privatized managed care or the govt. Why would someone idolize business when it wastes their own money and denies them care? I dont see them asking the hard questions here or speaking to healthcare providers about whats really going on behind closed doors...I think they would be shocked by what they knew versus what the media and politicians feed them on Faux News. Then maybe the government should do a little work "fixing" the Health Insurance Companies before they "fix" the Health Insurance benefits/coverage I pay for???
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Post by lynn on Oct 8, 2009 16:39:00 GMT -4
But isnt it amazing that the same people who yell they dont want the govt controlling their healthcare have no problem with a business controlling their healthcare...and wasting money unregulated and unchecked and milking them for all its worth.. It seems its okay for Blue Cross Blue Shield to decide what kind of care they get and determine what kind of decisions their doctors and healthcare providers are allowed to make...Why? Wasted money is wasted money, whether in the form of privatized managed care or the govt. Why would someone idolize business when it wastes their own money and denies them care? I dont see them asking the hard questions here or speaking to healthcare providers about whats really going on behind closed doors...I think they would be shocked by what they knew versus what the media and politicians feed them on Faux News. There is a big difference in businesses running healthcare versus the government running healthcare. First I have a choice with business run healthcare, if I do not like them, I will go somewhere else. I don't feel like going into another debate right now, but there is a huge difference.
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Post by lynn on Oct 8, 2009 16:39:55 GMT -4
Rules only apply to non democrat, like paying taxes! How many people in the obama white house can use turbo tax as a excuse to cheat on their taxes. The biggest tax cheat would be tim the turbo cheat geithner! Tim is only in charge of the Federal Reserve bank of New York! Umm What does that have to do with anything? We have lost site of the topic I think. yes, but it was funny.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 9, 2009 12:40:03 GMT -4
Lynn..you are very fortunate if you have a choice to leave your health insurance company..Most people get theirs from their jobs and dont have that option..Secondly, all managed care companies are run the same...Managed care has panels that decide healthcare decisions..so it really doesnt matter if you switch from one to another, they all do the same thing...Ive worked with most health insurance companies and any one you choose will have a panel that overrides decisions your doctor or healthcare specialist makes.....The idea that because its a "business" then you can walk away from it doesnt matter if they all use the same method of operating.. Ive witnessed that happen over and over regardless of what managed care provider panels Ive been on...They bait and switch to throw people off and make it seems like insurance A is "better" than insurance B. Im wondering what big differences you think there are?...Ive never seen any, in 20 years of working with privatized healthcare system....Businesses that dont have monitoring from the outside can waste your money as easily as govt. programs can..
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Post by stephadele on Oct 9, 2009 12:47:14 GMT -4
Waterlady..The govt is in no position to fix any health insurance company giants..Managed care companies have high power lobbyists and supporters who would squash any govt trying to reform them...Its too late for that now.....Privatized healthcare is too powerful and entrenched...Healthcare providers like myself tried to warn people what was happening in the early 90s when healthcare reform first came up, but not many listened..Hence, we are in the position we are in now.....Its the people who need to get wise and call for change here...Get the fox out of the henhouse.....Stop paying for the BCBS CEO's 3rd vacation home ...Take back your healthcare...Get rid of privatized managed care for all...Allow a baseline of care for those who cant afford health insurance......I dont want a paperpusher making my healthcare decisions.....That should be only between my doctor and myself...
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Post by moosie on Oct 9, 2009 14:17:41 GMT -4
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Post by lynn on Oct 9, 2009 16:25:24 GMT -4
Waterlady..The govt is in no position to fix any health insurance company giants..Managed care companies have high power lobbyists and supporters who would squash any govt trying to reform them...Its too late for that now.....Privatized healthcare is too powerful and entrenched...Healthcare providers like myself tried to warn people what was happening in the early 90s when healthcare reform first came up, but not many listened..Hence, we are in the position we are in now.....Its the people who need to get wise and call for change here...Get the fox out of the henhouse.....Stop paying for the BCBS CEO's 3rd vacation home ...Take back your healthcare...Get rid of privatized managed care for all...Allow a baseline of care for those who cant afford health insurance......I dont want a paperpusher making my healthcare decisions.....That should be only between my doctor and myself... stephadele, I think everyone is in agreement with us needing reform and I especially agree with your last couple of desires; however, if the government runs our healthcare I can guarantee you will have much more paper pushing than ever.
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 9, 2009 16:38:20 GMT -4
Personally, my experience on Medicare--from my end--has required less paperwork than my experiences on other HMOs. No referrals!
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Post by stephadele on Oct 9, 2009 21:31:37 GMT -4
Lynn..That wasnt my experience working with Medicare and Medicaid...They actually had alot less paperwork than private managed care BCBS , United Healthcare and Kaiser...One big reason I prefer working with a govt. plan than a private one...If they cheat you, they get cited...not so with privatized care...They can do whatever they want with no monitoring from anyone. Im in agreement with funnel... As a healthcare provider, HMOs are way more time consuming with paperwork and gatekeeper phone calls I have to do while the client was sitting next to me on THEIR time...How fair is that?..Would you want your session cut short because of paperwork and phone calls just because its a business?...The "rules" change all the time with privatized managed care, resulting in new paperwork and new forms and surveys they pressure clients to fill out during their appointment times..
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 9, 2009 22:22:44 GMT -4
Waterlady..The govt is in no position to fix any health insurance company giants..Managed care companies have high power lobbyists and supporters who would squash any govt trying to reform them...Its too late for that now.....Privatized healthcare is too powerful and entrenched...Healthcare providers like myself tried to warn people what was happening in the early 90s when healthcare reform first came up, but not many listened..Hence, we are in the position we are in now.....Its the people who need to get wise and call for change here...Get the fox out of the henhouse.....Stop paying for the BCBS CEO's 3rd vacation home ...Take back your healthcare...Get rid of privatized managed care for all...Allow a baseline of care for those who cant afford health insurance......I dont want a paperpusher making my healthcare decisions.....That should be only between my doctor and myself... While I agree with your premise, I disagree with your fundamental reasoning here...The government most certainly IS in a position to fix Health Industry Giants - the problem is the lobbyist and other PACs who constantly grease the palms of the politicians who are supposed to be watching and regulating (yes, I said regulating) the Industry. Even if all the people in this country agreed with us, we can not "force" reform of the Industry Giants practices without the government acting on behalf of the people. I would tend to agree with Funnel here, that the paperwork is significantly less with Medicare (after participant and/or provider become enrolled.) However, as a Provider, I feel strongly that all of the bureaucratic policies, manuals, provisions, intermediaries...leave me sitting open to anything Medicare may want to slap me with... I have three favorite questions recently: 1. Why should an employee of one of these companies (not a medical professional, but an administrative type) decide that a patient's visit for physical therapy should be worth a maximum reimbursement of $60.00? It does not matter what the diagnoses is or if the patient is seen for 30 minutes or 90 minutes, and it does not matter what treatment the patient has received during that visit? 2. Why does Care First Blue Cross donate $25.00 to the Boys and Girls Club of Baltimore anytime an Oriole's player hits a home run? WTH!!!! Who in the world gave CFBC the permission or the right to do that with MY PREMIUMS? ? A lot of their Insureds pay $25.00 Co-pays for each Doctor's visit...I'd rather pay $25.00 less in premiums and give "my" money to charity when I feel like it 3. Kelly and Associates is located in Hunt Valley, MD. They are the people to whom I send my Health Insurance check every month - I mean the portion I pay for my employees. They don't provide health care services, they simply process the payments for the Blues. Why are they donating $2,000.00 to charity (can't remember which one) every time an Oriole Pitcher saves a game??? SIDE BAR: I love the Orioles and charitable contributions, please don't start... I will close my little rant with an example of my point; was there or was there not, a government agency that "should" have known about and stopped Bernie Madoff? Yes there was - the SEC - unfortunately and is far too often the case, the fox is in the hen house and the real problem is in the House and Senate of this country. Heaven help us - I don't know what the answer is, but I think what is coming is going to be a complete nightmare all the way around.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 10, 2009 13:05:09 GMT -4
Water Lady...while I do agree with you on your questions, its crazy that someone like Kelly and Associates shells out thousands of dollars for "charity" while small business owners are barely able to afford paying for their employee insurance...I once had a client who was a major paperpusher for BCBS in DC, it was very difficult trying to counsel her while knowing she got full benefits and paid sick leave and paid vacations, at my expense...All managed care companies eliminated sick leave and paid vacations for mental health therapists and made all job positions fee for service in the early 90s...This also means if a client doesnt show up or late cancels, we dont get paid....They arent salaried positions and havent been since the 90s....The public is just becoming aware of what healthcare providers go thru when they are forced to work FFS ..I cant tell you how many thousands of free clocks, mugs pens and note pads and free lunches I got from BCBS, Pfizer, Glaxo Smith Klein, ect, ALL at consumers expense in the form of the increased premiums!!...How many even know this?!...I was always asking "How is this fiscally responsible?"..People complain about premiums going up but most have no idea WHY and HOW thats happening....All while Glaxo Smith Klein and BCBS says they cant give out free meds to the needy anymore...I wonder why .....WHAT total BS, it made me sick to witness that all the time... I dont think govt. can fix managed care yet as long as you have the fox in the henhouse and people arent aware of the power of managed care...For govt. to make any long term entrenched changes, just about everyone has to be in agreement on some form of govt. program in the form of single payer...Judging from whats happening in town hall meetings (especially in the South and Midwest, New England pretty much supports it) and people being hostile to govt. healthcare reform, namely single payer, it doesnt look like that will be happening soon...I hope I am wrong on this , I would love to see single payer options here nationwide...That was the kicker that made me leave the healthcare field...Not the stress of the clients...but working with the sickness and the insane greed of corporate managed care...I got tired of being a managed care prostitute....The irony of all this is we have stats and proof that going single payer would save us so much money, especially in the long run....Im a member of Physicians For Single Payer Healthcare and they provide alot of research on this.....Educating people on it is another story.....It makes me wonder why the same people who would invest in their families and cars and houses and the Chesapeake cant invest in the healthcare of the country....The consequences of ignoring that and its not "my problem" only create larger problems that are way more expensive to fix in the long run....To all those who say govt programs prevent "competition", managed care has ALREADY done that decades ago...They all operate on the same rules, it doesnt matter if you switch from United Healthcare to BCBS to Kaiser..So it matters not who you switch to, you will STILL have your doctor under the final authority and decision making of managed care....People need to understand that the purpose of privatized healthcare is to deny them care so they can make a profit....By chipping away what benefits they do have, denying freedom of competition and them stealing them blind under the guise of bait and switch "changes"....But I guess the brainwashing and fear building of the public on the part of the lobbyists for BCBS and Glaxo Smith Klein have worked very well, sadly enough....Im like alot of others here and I cant think too much about what I know and what Ive seen or it will make me angry all the time...But I do agree with you on the stupidity and the sickening waste of the system that allows big business to throw around money of consumers, no questions asked..Why not at least enforce a panel of experts unrelated to insurance companies to provide as a watchdog and monitor of ethical practices?...If they can put Enron on the hotseat, why not BCBS?
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 10, 2009 14:10:07 GMT -4
2. Why does Care First Blue Cross donate $25.00 to the Boys and Girls Club of Baltimore anytime an Oriole's player hits a home run? WTH!!!! Who in the world gave CFBC the permission or the right to do that with MY PREMIUMS?? A lot of their Insureds pay $25.00 Co-pays for each Doctor's visit...I'd rather pay $25.00 less in premiums and give "my" money to charity when I feel like it To me, the better question is: Who in the world has the right to tell CFBC what to do with their money? Once they provide the service you are paying for, "ownership" of those dollars pass from you to them and they can do whatever they want with it Do you want someone dictating to you how you can spend your money? If you want to pay less for your coverage, shop around; you have that option today with multiple insurance companies trying to get your business. Because they want to. Because they have a right to. Because it is a darn nice thing to do. Because they think it will be good advertising. Capitalism: it sometimes ain't pretty but it beats the alternatives.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 10, 2009 15:36:37 GMT -4
2. Why does Care First Blue Cross donate $25.00 to the Boys and Girls Club of Baltimore anytime an Oriole's player hits a home run? WTH!!!! Who in the world gave CFBC the permission or the right to do that with MY PREMIUMS?? A lot of their Insureds pay $25.00 Co-pays for each Doctor's visit...I'd rather pay $25.00 less in premiums and give "my" money to charity when I feel like it To me, the better question is: Who in the world has the right to tell CFBC what to do with their money? Once they provide the service you are paying for, "ownership" of those dollars pass from you to them and they can do whatever they want with it Do you want someone dictating to you how you can spend your money? If you want to pay less for your coverage, shop around; you have that option today with multiple insurance companies trying to get your business. Because they want to. Because they have a right to. Because it is a darn nice thing to do. Because they think it will be good advertising. Capitalism: it sometimes ain't pretty but it beats the alternatives. Falgar25 - I don't disagree with you and I am totally in favor of Capitalism. However, as a small Business Owner, one of the first things to get cut from the budget when times get tough, is charitable contributions (and advertising.) I'm referring more to excess in the Health "Giants" than anything else. It seems to me that if BCBS is paying Kelly and Associates so well that Kelly can make such generous contributions, while others are struggling just to make ends meet - you just have to wonder about the in balance of all of it... Also, when we pay our Health Insurance premiums, "most" or "some" of us are under the impression that our dollars are going to cover insurance premiums (including the cost to run the program.) If BCBS is a not-for profit business, kind of like a Credit Union, that would mean they would spend away all excess in order to meet the not-for profit requirements. There is definitely a problem with these companies. I'm all in favor of capitalism and less government, but there is a point, in my opinion, when any entity can get too big for it's britches...
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 10, 2009 15:55:43 GMT -4
The fact that health insurance companies claim to be "not-for-profit" is such a joke.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 10, 2009 16:07:19 GMT -4
The fact that health insurance companies claim to be "not-for-profit" is such a joke. You are soooooooooo right! I worked for the largest Credit Union in the state for a couple years and you just WOULD NOT BELIEVE what they spent (and how much) at the end of each fiscal year so there would be "no profit." The Insurance companies operate much the same way. A few years ago, before I became a "Provider," I would have had a completely different opinion of this entire issue. It is only because I have seen how it really works that I feel so strongly about the industry and it's practices. Premiums go up - benefits go down...Insurance Giants rolling in dough...
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 10, 2009 16:12:10 GMT -4
I wonder what the effect, if any, would be if insurance companies were openly for-profit.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 10, 2009 16:19:09 GMT -4
I have wondered the same thing Funnel. My thought is that things are so far out of control, that it probably wouldn't change anything. I think the major problem is that "the People" (most of them) just do not know the way things really are.
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Post by hale80 on Oct 10, 2009 23:26:16 GMT -4
I have wondered the same thing Funnel. My thought is that things are so far out of control, that it probably wouldn't change anything. I think the major problem is that "the People" (most of them) just do not know the way things really are. I think stephadele and waterlady are on to something here. From my own personal and professional experience, you are spot on about non-profit corporations. Only problem is, you are correct - most people have no idea how it works and why it works. Most unfortunate indeed. You both have raised very good points though in my opinion.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 11, 2009 11:31:36 GMT -4
This is what is so frustrating for me, hale80...explaining to people how it REALLY is to work in the trenches versus what the lobbyists and politicians are are telling them...Every time I hear a myth coming out of their mouths about this in those meetings, I just shake my head and think, how can we get thru this?..What will make them listen?..How do you explain to them that wasted money from businessese who have a complete monopoly on the system is just as bad, if not worse, than govt programs....They are literally being robbed blind by semantics...mention the word "business" and they ignore all the waste yet complain about the consequences, higher premiums... So how do you think we educate people on that?.....From my experience in town hall meetings, most people just want to complain and react and dont care to listen to those who have worked in the system, on how to fix it...They are wary of providers telling it like it is...Not sure why...Its not like I was making tons of money telling the truth or that I was making tons of money at 28K-30k a year struggling as a fee for service provider while BCBS paperpushers make 75K with full benefits.., in fact, I left it because of it....I just would like to break thru the communication block.
Ive often thought of trucking all my hundreds of "free" clocks and pens and mugs on a blanket and setting it in front of the Capital building/ White House with a sign in front that says" "This is what your increased health insurance premiums bought for me, a healthcare provider. I never asked for or wanted it"
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Post by emsguru on Oct 11, 2009 12:07:58 GMT -4
Well it is now against the law for them to make the pens, note pads, clocks, etc. However I do believe they can still go into offices and spend hundreds of dollars buying them all lunch at whatever fancy restaurant they want.
A friend of mine who works in an office in annapolis says its often that they get free lunches from Ruth Chris, Phillips, etc paid for by drug reps.
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