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Post by lynn on Oct 22, 2009 10:28:15 GMT -4
After reading Falgar's posting about every year at tax time the IRS calls him Peter.
Well, I too am Peter. I am Peter all year long. I don't mind giving for the required necessities of public services, but this has got to stop.
At church and other missionary causes and non-profits I believe in, I give a large portion of my income. However, I know how that money is being spent and this is money that I know in my heart is being well used for something I believe in.
I believe in the story in the Bible of the Good Samaritan and helping out those are in desperate need.
But Jesus said (I believe it was Jesus, I don't have time to look it up now) that God helps those who help himself.
Our government is going to turn our 3-class society into a 2-class society of just the rich and poor. Our middle class is getting stretched so thin by all we must pay.
I receive absolutely no handouts from the government. I make too much money to qualify for almost anything/everything. I can claim zero exemptions all year and even pay extra and still owe the IRS at the end of the year. Yes, I am thankful that I have work when so many others do not; however, just because I have a job and work, I can not afford to be the personal bank for everyone else.
There was a clip on tv a couple of weeks ago, fox tv was the only one that I saw who showed the clip. In Chicago, the government was handing out "grants" to citizens to help pay for things and/or start businesses or whatever else they needed. The people were jumping around and saying that they are there to get their free "Obama money". They do not have to pay this money back or work or do anything else, they just show up and get their "Obama money".
What is wrong with society today? Do so many people think that it is just acceptable to put your hand out and get free money for things?
Why is there an "earned income credit" for people who do not make enough money? That is the dumbest thing on tax forms that I think I know of. So, you don't make enough money so we are going to give you extra money because you should have earned it? Please tell me, am I missing something here? I'm serious, am I missing something here?
I understand everyone needs some help at times, but what our government is creating is a society of "Pauls". Being a "Paul" should be a temporary situation at most, not a new lifestyle.
The government has created this mess and it is getting worse, people are getting more and more dependent on these hand outs so they keep voting in the same snake salesman who promised all of these hand outs. Of course Paul is not going to cut off the hand of the one who feeds him.
I'm so tired of having so much of my pay disappear without having any say in where it goes.
-Peter
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 22, 2009 10:35:08 GMT -4
After reading Falgar's posting about every year at tax time the IRS calls him Peter. Well, I too am Peter. I am Peter all year long. I don't mind giving for the required necessities of public services, but this has got to stop. At church and other missionary causes and non-profits I believe in, I give a large portion of my income. However, I know how that money is being spent and this is money that I know in my heart is being well used for something I believe in. I believe in the story in the Bible of the Good Samaritan and helping out those are in desperate need. But Jesus said (I believe it was Jesus, I don't have time to look it up now) that God helps those who help himself. Our government is going to turn our 3-class society into a 2-class society of just the rich and poor. Our middle class is getting stretched so thin by all we must pay. I receive absolutely no handouts from the government. I make too much money to qualify for almost anything/everything. I can claim zero exemptions all year and even pay extra and still owe the IRS at the end of the year. Yes, I am thankful that I have work when so many others do not; however, just because I have a job and work, I can not afford to be the personal bank for everyone else. There was a clip on tv a couple of weeks ago, fox tv was the only one that I saw who showed the clip. In Chicago, the government was handing out "grants" to citizens to help pay for things and/or start businesses or whatever else they needed. The people were jumping around and saying that they are there to get their free "Obama money". They do not have to pay this money back or work or do anything else, they just show up and get their "Obama money". What is wrong with society today? Do so many people think that it is just acceptable to put your hand out and get free money for things? Why is there an "earned income credit" for people who do not make enough money? That is the dumbest thing on tax forms that I think I know of. So, you don't make enough money so we are going to give you extra money because you should have earned it? Please tell me, am I missing something here? I'm serious, am I missing something here? I understand everyone needs some help at times, but what our government is creating is a society of "Pauls". Being a "Paul" should be a temporary situation at most, not a new lifestyle. The government has created this mess and it is getting worse, people are getting more and more dependent on these hand outs so they keep voting in the same snake salesman who promised all of these hand outs. Of course Paul is not going to cut off the hand of the one who feeds him. I'm so tired of having so much of my pay disappear without having any say in where it goes. -Peter Great post. It seems much of the middle class is struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, if they even get a paycheck now. It kills me to see the ads on the internet where Obama is urging mothers to go back to college. For What? So many college grads are not able to find work and many of them if they do, it is restaurant help. Then again, the way the economy is, the restaurant help is hurting too. Socialism here we come, or is it here we are. It is going to be a long 3 years. I just hope the person that comes in next can clean it up.
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Post by shadow1 on Oct 22, 2009 11:39:14 GMT -4
Lynn...........ain't it the truth.
People milking the system because the system let's them do it.........at others expense.
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Post by zebadee on Oct 22, 2009 13:03:24 GMT -4
"It kills me to see the ads on the internet where Obama is urging mothers to go back to college. For What? " He's urging them to go back to college so they can take advantage of the "free" financial aid that we "middle class folk" are paying for
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 22, 2009 13:04:44 GMT -4
Being a "Paul" should be a temporary situation at most, not a new lifestyle. So... I should stop getting Medicare and SSDI because it's not a temporary situation?
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Post by shadow1 on Oct 22, 2009 13:29:37 GMT -4
Being a "Paul" should be a temporary situation at most, not a new lifestyle. So... I should stop getting Medicare and SSDI because it's not a temporary situation? Funnel -I don't believe Lynn once made reference to eliminating programs such as you mention. Her frustration seems to be aimed at those "perceived" as being a gift for those who can do for themselves. Lynn, only an assumption, don't mean to put words in your mouth. I don't know your situation, but if you are able to work and receive medical benefits through your company that can cover what you require, I wouldn't expect you to receive those same benefits through the programs you mention. Obviously, if you cannot work or have no means for other medical benefits, there should be a resource (i.e.,medicare, SSDI, etc) available to assist you. I personnally know individuals milking the system that should/do have the capability to not rely on the taxpayers money. Personnally, my biggest heartache is those that are more than capable of working, but collecting unemployment. Even with the economy as it is, there are jobs available. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Frank on Oct 22, 2009 13:48:17 GMT -4
Well said, shadow1.
Let us not forget the irresponsible citizens where welfare is a way of life. Having children just to get more assistance, fathers who won't support their children, working under the table while collecting benefits, etc. I had a guy working for me who used his son's SS# so he could collect housing assistance and food stamps. I wanted to fire him, but the company met with his lawyer who claimed the language barrier (hispanic) prevented him from filling out the application properly. Disgusting! Another employee (Sam) from Georgia had 22 kids with 7 different mothers. All the mothers received state assistance. Sam paid no child support to any of the women because he didn't make that much. The women claimed they didn't know who the father was so they would receive more money. Sam just bounced from house to house for "stud service". When I left GA in 1999, he was going to be a father again at 58 years old.
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 22, 2009 13:49:26 GMT -4
My point merely is that it's a slippery slope from "I don't want people milking the government" to "People should be able to support themselves no matter what". I think one needs to be careful here: what makes you able to know who's milking the system and who isn't? Where do you draw the line?
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Post by shadow1 on Oct 22, 2009 14:06:40 GMT -4
Agreed Frank, welfare is another one.
Funnel, in many, many cases it is very obvious - unfortunately, many of those paid (usually also by us taxpayers) to monitor and enforce those programs, find it easier to cast a blind eye. It's easier to release the funds, than to go through the bureaucratic or legal processes.
Sometimes the slope ain't so slippery.
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 22, 2009 14:11:04 GMT -4
I'm not denying that in many cases it's obvious. My question is: where do you draw the line?
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 22, 2009 14:41:44 GMT -4
Another problem is being able to work and get some help. The current systems rewards more to those who do not work at all while some are working and struggling and are not able to get help or are only allowed minimum help. A bigger waste of government money is in areas such as entitlements and other payments going to ex politicians.
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 22, 2009 14:42:47 GMT -4
Well said, shadow1. Let us not forget the irresponsible citizens where welfare is a way of life. Having children just to get more assistance, fathers who won't support their children, working under the table while collecting benefits, etc. I had a guy working for me who used his son's SS# so he could collect housing assistance and food stamps. I wanted to fire him, but the company met with his lawyer who claimed the language barrier (hispanic) prevented him from filling out the application properly. Disgusting! Another employee (Sam) from Georgia had 22 kids with 7 different mothers. All the mothers received state assistance. Sam paid no child support to any of the women because he didn't make that much. The women claimed they didn't know who the father was so they would receive more money. Sam just bounced from house to house for "stud service". When I left GA in 1999, he was going to be a father again at 58 years old. I agree with you Frank but it does take two to tango.
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Post by pete1 on Oct 22, 2009 14:43:13 GMT -4
My Friends.......What ever you don't like about the United States is already against the law. The problem is our elected officials, and those who swore on the Bible to enforce the law, but lack the courage to do so.
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Post by rudyhayesforever on Oct 22, 2009 14:50:42 GMT -4
My Friends.......What ever you don't like about the United States is already against the law. The problem is our elected officials, and those who swore on the Bible to enforce the law, but lack the courage to do so. Leave it to Pete Richter to twist this thread into something about corruption. The real problem with all of these handouts is that some people really think it's a good idea.
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 22, 2009 15:03:23 GMT -4
Another problem is being able to work and get some help. The current systems rewards more to those who do not work at all while some are working and struggling and are not able to get help or are only allowed minimum help. I completely agree with this. There are people who could work a little bit but not enough to support themselves; and by doing so would lose their government aid. So they're left with the choice of not working at all, but having enough money to live off of, or working a little and not having enough money to survive.
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Post by shorti on Oct 22, 2009 15:11:42 GMT -4
My Friends.......What ever you don't like about the United States is already against the law. The problem is our elected officials, and those who swore on the Bible to enforce the law, but lack the courage to do so. I disagree pete... I think most of the problem is not just the officials, but the people who cry out that it's not fair because of this or that... then in order to please their voting pool, the officials make it easier & fair but it's not just our elected officials. I agree w/ most of these posts because I've been there...single mom - no support - was working but wasn't making enough to be able to pay for living expenses & child care - so went to the state for assistance w/ child care... no dice - why? because I made too much $$... I was making $7/hour. There wasn't a "low-income" housing area where I was living at the time, so I had to pay regular rent... no extras or anything... still nothing... so if I were to have quit my job, I would have received child care assistance... this came from the lady I was talking to... but why would i need child care assistance if i wasn't working??? Where's the logic? Funnel... problem is - there ISN'T a line now... well not a good one... it seems there's one for those who need it most.. I'm sure you have had or maybe still have problems w/ getting your benefits... how many hoops did you have to jump through? My eyes... require doctor certifications... from a list of approved doctors for those w/ legit medical reasons for needing assistance. For those on welfare & just going through a tough patch... make it temporary... and they HAVE to find work... it's out there - we just don't want to do alot of the jobs that are available. Now if there's a reason for not being able to do certain jobs... well then I as a taxpayer, wouldn't mind partially funding training so that person can have new EMPLOYABLE skills. Now here's where it's going to get bad... for those that abuse the system... drug users, alcoholics... while i recognize that there is an addiction factor.. but those people should not receive ANY assistance in the form of cash. That money should be used to get them clean... then if they don't get clean, then they get no benefits, if they do then let's help them back on their feet. There has to be personal accountability at some point and if they aren't willing to work on themselves then there needs to be a consequence... there are none.. Another thing our tax $$ pay for... child in state care... my sister used to do foster care in PA. She had a boy (whom she's adopted now) but when she first got him, his mother already had 1 other child in the system & was pregnant w/ another... on welfare - didn't work - drugs... child was taken away for medical neglect. then there was another one who my sister was called to get the baby from the hospital - why? because this woman already had 6 babies in state care!!! same thing... welfare... didn't work... drugs... who pays for this??? WE DO! ok well not in PA but the same happens here. While I believe we should care for the children.. .at what point do you apply some sort of consequence to the mother/father? 6 kids in the system! and to boot - she had 2 more - guess what? yep! in the system! While I believe in women's rights & all - at this point if you cannot care for the children you give birth to & are a "repeat offender" such as these and you're on welfare & not working and/or on drugs - then why not give them the birth control shot as a condition for receiving your benefits?!? it's very frustrating... I know it sounds harsh & all but there has to be some sort of accountability.
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 22, 2009 15:26:32 GMT -4
I understand and agree with Lynn's post completely!! And, I have been pondering how to "draw a line" so that those who TRULY need the help get it...and those that don't...DON'T.
How about for starters:
1) Medical proof of a disability. (have some sort of standardized testing or something) 2) Random drug testing of all recipients (with a zero tolerance policy) 3) The government stops paying for "welfare babies" after the third one. Have as many as you want....but Uncle Sam won't pay for more than 3.
Just a few ideas.
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Post by shorti on Oct 22, 2009 15:49:48 GMT -4
I love you!!! You can keep what I was trying to get out... simple!!!
YOU ROCK SG!
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Post by pete1 on Oct 22, 2009 16:03:33 GMT -4
rubyhayesforever........Let me please do more twisting for those who lack your intelligence. Government agencies in trusted to solve a problem are faced with a dilemma. Solving the problem will cost them their job. Do you agree?
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Post by hale80 on Oct 22, 2009 16:32:25 GMT -4
I understand and agree with Lynn's post completely!! And, I have been pondering how to "draw a line" so that those who TRULY need the help get it...and those that don't...DON'T. How about for starters: 1) Medical proof of a disability. (have some sort of standardized testing or something) 2) Random drug testing of all recipients (with a zero tolerance policy) 3) The government stops paying for "welfare babies" after the third one. Have as many as you want....but Uncle Sam won't pay for more than 3. Just a few ideas. I think those are great ideas. Wonder how much $$ we would save with just those three?
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 22, 2009 16:38:08 GMT -4
The medical part is just for people on Disability. They make most of them jump through hoops in order to qualify, pun intended. They typically turn your application down and you have to go through a 3 appeal process, that is why you see so many ads from lawyers on TV for it. Someone that meets the criteria should not have to hire a lawyer but that is the way the system works.
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Post by funnel101 on Oct 22, 2009 16:47:57 GMT -4
First application: Social Security didn't even contact my doctors and they "lost" the 50+ pages of medical records I submitted with my application. Denied. Appealed with Binder & Binder and got approved.
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 22, 2009 23:06:39 GMT -4
We are a socity who lacked the parenting skills to take care of our own kids. We have become a country of wimps. Of course their are the exceptions, some familes still have strong core values. Some still think that when a family member is down and out the FIRST to help should be other family members.
I do feel angar is growing among white familes with strong core values, what is goiing to happen? I don't know but I do feel "somthing" will.
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Post by misternuke on Oct 22, 2009 23:40:07 GMT -4
I was struck by a program I saw on TV about a woman who was born with a birth defect that left her without the entire lower half of her body (from about the waist south).
Despite her tremendous disability, she still supports herself and her family (including her mentally disabled brother) by working as an auto mechanic. This woman rolls around on a skateboard using her arms only and climbs her way up into the engine bay of customers' cars turning a wrench for a living.
I'm not saying that there might not be some people who need more help getting through life than others, but I really think a lot of people need to re-think their definition of disability and give more consideration to their need to be more self-reliant. I had a co-worker who lost both of his legs in a mortar attack in Iraq. Yep, still at work...still a solid performer...still hunting bad guys; only from behind a desk instead of out on patrol.
I can't tell you how angry I get when I hear about people who suffer some sort of physical injury or condition and are simply unwilling to undergo some sort of occupational re-training to find a new way to earn a living that is compatible with their new circumstances. In particular, I think of someone I knew of who hurt his back and started collecting SSDI. Of course he spent his new-found leisure time playing online games. Funny thing, the same skills used in online gaming are remarkably similar to the requirements for a white collar or administrative job.
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Post by mcbeth on Oct 23, 2009 0:27:04 GMT -4
"It kills me to see the ads on the internet where Obama is urging mothers to go back to college. For What? " He's urging them to go back to college so they can take advantage of the "free" financial aid that we "middle class folk" are paying for Don't be fooled by these "ads"; they are scams. I've worked in financial aid for almost 13 years, have served on our professional association's governmental affairs committee for almost 10 years (3 out of 10 years as chair), so I'm actually familiar with the legislation that has been passed in higher ed over the past decade. The problem is that, because of BS ads like that, students are walking into financial aid offices asking for their "Obama grants" (uh, they DON'T exist), when mostly what most students are eligible for are loans. It really bothers me that there is all this talk about more grants (the current administration has not yet passed any laws implementing any additional grant programs). I hate those ads because I feel that they are preying on unsuspecting (potential) students. Student loans are beneficial to those who need them, but I have a real issue when students are misled, especially when it comes to these alleged "grants". There is actually much less of a "free ride" than you would think. Unfortunately, the way the legislation is written, you are right on one part of this, zebadee; the middle class will be "paying" for the grant funds (and then everyone else will be paying for them after that) from the supposed "savings" to the federal student loan programs. Not that Congress is listening, tho'....and that's a big problem. They are too worried about "winning" and who is "in charge". So much for the people they supposedly "represent". I certainly don't feel represented. By anyone, from either party. Sorry for the rant, folks. Higher Ed issues actually are a touchy issue with me, and those "grant" advertisements make me a little nuts...well, a little MORE nuts than I already am, lol. But, I am there with you all; there are some stupid decisions being made inside the Beltway, and folks who NEED the assistance can't get it, and those who really SHOULDN'T get it seem to find a way. Sigh...
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