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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 23:00:00 GMT -4
What, Obama has been in office for a little over 4 months. We are already starting to see some extremists lash out, it's not good. I fear the home grown terrorist* attack might be a bigger problem than a foreign planned terrorist attack. That "lone wolf" or 2-3 man silent cell group is hard to identify, but they are out there and planning. Unfortunately, we are going to see more of them. Remember, The Oklahoma City bombing was done by Americans against Americans. *Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence intended to intimidate or cause terror for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies." The term "terror" is largely used to indicate clandestine, low-intensity violence that targets civilians and generates public fear. Thus "terror" is distinct from asymmetric warfare, and violates the concept of a common law of war in which civilian life is regarded. The term "-ism" is used to indicate an ideology —typically one that claims its attacks are in the domain of a "just war" concept, though most condemn such as crimes against humanity. Terrorism is more commonly understood as an act which is intended to create fear (terror), is perpetrated for an ideological goal, and deliberately targets (or disregards the safety of) non-combatants. Copied from the web.
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Post by dej on Jun 11, 2009 2:09:27 GMT -4
Yesterday it was a white supremacist, last week a black Muslim. Maybe Homeland Security missed them since they weren't disgruntled soldiers returning from service in Iraq that Secretary Napolitano warned us to watch out for?
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Post by RobMoore on Jun 11, 2009 7:02:41 GMT -4
..and they didn't have Ron Paul bumper stickers.
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Post by funnel101 on Jun 11, 2009 12:13:17 GMT -4
Don't forget the murder of Dr. Tiller as well. That's also terrorism.
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Post by dej on Jun 11, 2009 19:54:29 GMT -4
Don't forget the murder of Dr. Tiller as well. That's also terrorism. I had forgotten that one, until I heard his former partner Dr. Cathcart comparing Tiller's murder to the MLK assasination, the attack on Pearl Harbor and the sinking of the Lusitania. While any murder is tragic, I can't help but feel Cathcart may be a little disconnected from reality with those types of comparisons.
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Post by island tech on Jun 11, 2009 22:09:31 GMT -4
Don't forget the murder of Dr. Tiller as well. That's also terrorism. I had forgotten that one, until I heard his former partner Dr. Cathcart comparing Tiller's murder to the MLK assasination, the attack on Pearl Harbor and the sinking of the Lusitania. While any murder is tragic, I can't help but feel Cathcart may be a little disconnected from reality with those types of comparisons. And now that Dr is promising to open an office to perform 3rd term abortions.
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Post by shorti on Jun 12, 2009 8:59:00 GMT -4
Don't forget the murder of Dr. Tiller as well. That's also terrorism. Oh man.... this is gonna hurt & cause lots of smites my way... but have something to say about this... Now - while I do not condone the killing of anyone - regardless of race, religion, creed, sex, etc... and I do think that this is a tragic event BUT... am I the only person who finds it ironic that a man who performs late term abortions (or abortions period) was killed while he was in CHURCH? Isnt' the fact that he was in church being an abortion doc in itself hypocritical? Especially a Christian church that opposes abortion? Just observation from me... Now, now - before you guys get your panties in a wad... let me point out... being Christian - at least my church teaches this and most churches SHOULD - you love the person - don't condone the act & pray that the person will turn from the sin - but still LOVE them... and then to compare the killing of Tiller to MLK - SERIOUSLY???!!! Uh... NO!! Not even close. and... while i oppose abortion based on my beliefs and some real life issues I have seen & experienced personally - a 3rd term abortion - ABSOLUTELY wrong! At that point there is NO discrepancy that is a living, breathing, human life - I don't care what side of the fence you sit on. I miscarried at 4 months - had to deliver - and there he was a little baby - ten fingers, ten toes - perfectly formed - just very very small. Sorry Funnel but you & I definitely don't see eye-to-eye on this one... while it's tragic - i don't claim it as terrorism - yet i wouldn't condone the act either
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 9:49:18 GMT -4
Regardless of which side of the fence you are on with abortion. It was a legal procedure in the state of Kansas.....there's the bottom line. Effort should have been made to change the law in the state, not take matters into your own hands. One thing that really surprised me about this was, and I would have thought that a bible thumping state like Kansas would not have allowed this to be legal. But, it's done, it's over and the clinic is closing. I would also think that the two remaining clinics in the country (doctors) that perform these legal late term procedure have a bulls eye on them. Extremist whether left or right should not intimidate and be allowed to sway what the majority believe, want or is legal. Majority should always win and that's how a democratic society operates. You can't please all the people all the time. That basis works in business, government and society in general.
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Post by einebierbitte on Jun 12, 2009 9:57:38 GMT -4
What I don't get is this... Why is it that people get so uptight in the abortion debate to begin with. What happened to the doctor was tragic and in the eyes of the law the people responsible are the ones that committed the crime and should be punished severly.
What the doctor does for a living isn't a crime (yet). You may not agree with his chosen path but nevertheless abortion is still a legal procedure. Is it morally wrong? it all depends on which side of the fence you sit on.
Pro Choice and Pro Life are never going to come to an agreement on this issue. But it's the pro lifers that become the extremists and become what I would term as home grown terrorists... Pro- Lifers is quite a paradox.... they argue life, life life, then go out killing docs or blowing up clinics and the people in them.... Real pro-life huh? (*edited to say it's just a few of these extremist pro lifers..not all...but you know one bad apple and everyone is lumped in the same pot..)
Just my opinion.
For the record I don't really care if someone get's an abortion or not. It's their decision and one they have to live with the rest of their lives.
Personally, I am not sure I could go thru with it, but I have friends who have, and at the time that was their only answer. You can't come back and say they had other options because 1 you aren't in their shoes and 2 you don't know the full story.
You don't have to believe in it or not believe in it, but I think both sides should respect that everyone has a right to choose their own path, and if it doesn't line up with you way of thinking...that's ok!
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Post by shorti on Jun 12, 2009 9:57:23 GMT -4
oh you're right mj - it was a legal procedure - not saying he was doing something illegal... not at all... i was merely pointing out the irony in the circumstance. And I agree - taking matters into your own hands is wrong... the person that shot him based on his beliefs is no different really - he just took a life - like that doctor... it's a fine line I know... but regardless if my beliefs tell me that abortion is wrong - i would not consider harming anyone that performed them.
The true test of love.... love your enemies like you love your friends/family - pray for them - forgive them...
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Post by shorti on Jun 12, 2009 17:16:51 GMT -4
What I don't get is this... Why is it that people get so uptight in the abortion debate to begin with. What happened to the doctor was tragic and in the eyes of the law the people responsible are the ones that committed the crime and should be punished severly. What the doctor does for a living isn't a crime (yet). You may not agree with his chosen path but nevertheless abortion is still a legal procedure. Is it morally wrong? it all depends on which side of the fence you sit on. Pro Choice and Pro Life are never going to come to an agreement on this issue. But it's the pro lifers that become the extremists and become what I would term as home grown terrorists... Pro- Lifers is quite a paradox.... they argue life, life life, then go out killing docs or blowing up clinics and the people in them.... Real pro-life huh? (*edited to say it's just a few of these extremist pro lifers..not all...but you know one bad apple and everyone is lumped in the same pot..) Just my opinion. For the record I don't really care if someone get's an abortion or not. It's their decision and one they have to live with the rest of their lives. Personally, I am not sure I could go thru with it, but I have friends who have, and at the time that was their only answer. You can't come back and say they had other options because 1 you aren't in their shoes and 2 you don't know the full story. You don't have to believe in it or not believe in it, but I think both sides should respect that everyone has a right to choose their own path, and if it doesn't line up with you way of thinking...that's ok! See here's the GRAND thing... I agree w/ most everything you said here... the only debate i have is the terrorist thing... see i wouldn't consider a fool who mugs lil old ladies a terrorist - or the person who has decided that they want to kill someone because they made them upset or whatever reason... I think of terrorists as those who plot to harm our country (and in this would be the drug cartels too) so i guess the word is just perspective you know... one guy (or one here & there) who chooses to act under a blanket of people who base their opinions on beliefs - while extremist, i wouldn't say terrorist... now if that guy has a group of folks that were all in on it... well then touche...
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Post by einebierbitte on Jun 13, 2009 10:40:47 GMT -4
I hear ya shorti...
But look at the word terrorist: It means one who provokes terror.
So yea, the term is loosly used and applied
but it only takes one to create terror.......................
Personally, I guess I would just use the term gutter slime inconsequential no good for nothing idiots..
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Post by funnel101 on Jun 13, 2009 13:37:37 GMT -4
The guy who murdered Dr. Tiller no doubt intended it to be taken as a warning to other doctors who perform abortions. Since this is not the first abortion clinic shooting, nor, unfortunately, will it be the last, yes, this is terrorism.
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Post by jake on Jun 13, 2009 22:47:33 GMT -4
"What the doctor does for a living isn't a crime (yet). You may not agree with his chosen path but nevertheless abortion is still a legal procedure. Is it morally wrong? it all depends on which side of the fence you sit on. "
What the Nazi's did in the concentration camps was not against their laws either. Was it morally wrong? it depends on which side of the fence you sat on, to them it wasn't. It was their decision and one they had to live with the rest of their lives.
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Post by einebierbitte on Jun 13, 2009 23:44:10 GMT -4
"What the doctor does for a living isn't a crime (yet). You may not agree with his chosen path but nevertheless abortion is still a legal procedure. Is it morally wrong? it all depends on which side of the fence you sit on. " What the Nazi's did in the concentration camps was not against their laws either. Was it morally wrong? it depends on which side of the fence you sat on, to them it wasn't. It was their decision and one they had to live with the rest of their lives. I think your analogy is a tad off base, not even in the same ball park.
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Post by jake on Jun 14, 2009 10:58:37 GMT -4
"What the doctor does for a living isn't a crime (yet). You may not agree with his chosen path but nevertheless abortion is still a legal procedure. Is it morally wrong? it all depends on which side of the fence you sit on. " What the Nazi's did in the concentration camps was not against their laws either. Was it morally wrong? it depends on which side of the fence you sat on, to them it wasn't. It was their decision and one they had to live with the rest of their lives. . I think your analogy is a tad off base, not even in the same ball park. WORLDWIDE Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000 "I think your analogy is a tad off base," Not really
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Post by RobMoore on Jun 14, 2009 16:12:11 GMT -4
While the abortion doctor murder may be a piece of the puzzle, its a small piece, hardly worth holding the magnifying glass over for too long. Without it, the pot would continue the obligatory boiling.
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Post by speedergurl68 on Jun 14, 2009 19:49:22 GMT -4
And jake...what i think...is you are allowed your opinion about the contents of your uterus...and i am allowed my opinion about the contents of mine...
Some things are just simply none of anyone's business. Either way.
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Post by linda712 on Jun 14, 2009 20:02:47 GMT -4
Not to be disrespectful, Jake, but I have a major DITTO on SG's post. My uterus, my business. While I respect everyone to have their own personal opinions, they won't be shoved down my throat when it involves my personal body.....or otherwise.
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Post by bluecrabber on Jun 14, 2009 20:48:09 GMT -4
I've only ever heard one politician get it right.. William Donald Schaefer when asked for his position on abortion:
Not an exact quote, I can't find it, but the gist of it:
"I have my own views, but I represent my constituency and will uphold the law"
Best regards, BC
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