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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2009 23:21:08 GMT -4
With all the talk of government spending related to health care and what we can and can't afford.....I came across this today and thought I knew we spent a lot on defense, but can this really be true. I didn't realize it was this much compared to other countries. Defense spending seems to be one of those things that just happens and is not questioned.. Do people really understand how much of tax payers money is being spent annually. I've read of discussions of killing this program or that weapon to cut cost, but it always seems to end up with partisan politics accusing objectors of being unpatriotic, un-American or weak. On top of this massive amount of money being spent, you still hear of vets that are not being taking care of.....it shouldn't be that way. Did you know that of the top 15 spender countries in the world on defense, the US spends more on defense total than the next 14 countries in the world combined. It was in the USA Today and I found it on the web also to verify it. Big numbers, I guess that's the price you have to pay being the Sheriff of the world. The 15 major spender countries in 2008 (in Billions) USA 607 Billion China 84.9 France 65.7 UK 65.3 Russia 58.6 Germany 46.8 Japan 46.3 Italy 40.6 Saudi Arabia 38.2 India 30.0 South Korea 24.2 Brazil 23.3 Canada 19.3 Spain 19.2 Australia 18.4 Hopefully, the days of $400 hammers are gone. www.sipri.org/
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Post by kl on Aug 20, 2009 7:58:05 GMT -4
Was very well aware of this. Hence the reason why many, many Defense contracting companies would enjoy, and have been enjoying the endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. :-(
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Post by emsguru on Aug 20, 2009 9:18:14 GMT -4
We need this money to maintain our empire.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 10:25:46 GMT -4
We need a strong military, no doubt about it. What makes that number so big though. The USA doesn't have the biggest manned army, is it for technology. For the amount that is being spent, there should be some sort of "Death Star" in space like in Star Wars. Now, that's carrying a big stick.
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Post by Frank on Aug 20, 2009 11:37:02 GMT -4
Thats a huge number! Now triple that and you have some idea what this administration is spending on economic recovery! Scary, isn't it?
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Post by kl on Aug 20, 2009 13:25:09 GMT -4
Thats a huge number! Now triple that and you have some idea what this administration is spending on economic recovery! Scary, isn't it? Is that on top of the initial TARP of 700 billion? Last October? And the only economic recovery that I'm seeing is, as always, the investment banks who got the original bailouts and who plan on once again giving out million dollar bonus'!
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Post by Frank on Aug 20, 2009 14:05:26 GMT -4
It's unbelievable how this money is being wasted. Execs at AIG should have been burned at the stake. Maybe that would send the message. Banks took the money, then won't lend it out. The auto industry coming back for seconds is sickening. Maybe we need a fresh start.
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Post by pete1 on Aug 21, 2009 1:22:03 GMT -4
Sounds like a lot of $5,000.00 toilet seats.
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Post by kl on Aug 21, 2009 7:18:47 GMT -4
It's unbelievable how this money is being wasted. Execs at AIG should have been burned at the stake. Maybe that would send the message. Banks took the money, then won't lend it out. The auto industry coming back for seconds is sickening. Maybe we need a fresh start. And with the credit card companies getting ready to cut credit, and limit credit... And then the MSM states the economy is slowly getting better, and could improve faster, if only us, the consumers, start spending!!! With what? More folks filed for unemployment this past month. Here's thought. Is this Healthcare reform really that important right now? Or should the economy be the number one focus now?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 7:14:30 GMT -4
VA workers given millions in bonuses as vets await checks Report: Retired VA official acted as if she was given a "blank checkbook" for bonuses
Bonuses were paid despite backlog of vets' disability claims
By Laurie Ure CNN WASHINGTON (CNN) -- While hundreds of thousands of disability claims lay backlogged at the Department of Veterans Affairs, thousands of technology employees at the department received $24 million in bonuses, a new report says.
Lawmakers want to know why some IT workers in the VA Department have received millions in bonuses.
A report issued by the VA's Office of Inspector General said the department issued millions of dollars in awards over a two-year period in 2007 and 2008.
"The frequent and large dollar amount awards given to employees were unusual and often absurd," the report stated.
The reports also called the payments "not fiscally responsible."
Four high-level employees received about $60,000, $73,000, $58,000, and $59,000, respectively, according to the report, without sufficient justification. Another employee received a $4,500 performance award within the first 90 days of her employment from a manager who said that she did not even remember her.
The annual average award per employee was about $2,500 for both years, according to the report. About 4,700 awards and bonuses were issued in 2007, and about 5,000 in 2008.
The inspector general said one recently retired official, Jennifer S. Duncan, improperly approved numerous bonuses and "acted as if she was given a blank checkbook to write unlimited monetary awards."
During the two years in question, Duncan received over $60,000 in bonuses, according to the report.
In addition, the report concluded that the Office of Information and Technology managers were fiscally irresponsible when authorizing nearly $140,000 in improper academic degree funding, some of which went to Duncan's family and friends. The inspector general recommended the money be repaid.
The VA said it is pursuing a thorough review of the situation and it "does not condone misconduct by its employees and will take the appropriate corrective actions for those who violate VA policy," according to a statement provided to CNN.
Duncan could not be reached for comment.
Lawmakers in Washington have taken notice.
"I am extremely troubled by the Inspector General's findings," said Richard Burr, R-NC, the ranking Republican on the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee. "I believe Congress should use its oversight authority to further investigate these matters," he said in an e-mail to CNN.
President Obama has told Congress it is a priority to reduce the number of backlogged claims at the VA, where claims are coming in at a faster rate than they can be processed.
According to a Government Accountability Office report, the VA processed 60 percent more claims from 1999 to 2008 than it did a decade earlier, but the number of claims still pending jumped 65 percent.
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Post by lynn on Aug 22, 2009 13:07:35 GMT -4
Was very well aware of this. Hence the reason why many, many Defense contracting companies would enjoy, and have been enjoying the endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. :-( kl, I feel that you are so anti-war and anti-Bush that anything associated with them you will spew out your statements of complete nonsense. Do you really feel the contractors and the companies enjoy the wars and having our troops in harms way? Yes, companies make money off of the wars, but even in times when there aren't wars they are researching and developing vital things to protect our country. Of course the companies make more money in times of war but to make a blanket statement saying many, many contractors are enjoying the war because of the money is ridiculous and unfair. I don't like war either, but I realize that sometimes war is necessary and that sometimes force is needed to protect our wonderful country. The day of 9/11 is a day that we will all remember for ever. Our large defense spending helps to thwart future attacks such as that awful attack on our country. Everyday there is not an attack on our country is a successful day. Obama came into the office with a huge deficit. He said he would shrink the deficit Obama is like a Gypsy-Salesman, he comes in with big talk, he robs you blind, and leaves you with nothing but feelings of anger. The only difference is that the Gypsy Salesmen leave and go on to rob someone else... not Obama, he just keeps robbing the same people again and again. He is like a really bad Robin Hood
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Post by funnel101 on Aug 22, 2009 13:57:09 GMT -4
Honestly, Lynn? I think it all comes down to MONEY for a lot of the contractors.
And I want you to consider, also, that since 9/11, we have killed more civilians than were killed that day.
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Post by lynn on Aug 22, 2009 15:21:01 GMT -4
Honestly, Lynn? I think it all comes down to MONEY for a lot of the contractors. And I want you to consider, also, that since 9/11, we have killed more civilians than were killed that day. You are looking at the glass as if it is half empty when it is half full. Everyday when there isn't an attack, or an attack is thwarted by our US defense, is a day when millions of lives are saved. If you want to talk about things coming down to money, well, now lets talk about Congress. 80% of them (my guesstimate) are giving bogus deals to family and friends (and yes I can make a list if so desired).
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Post by dej on Aug 23, 2009 9:38:22 GMT -4
If you want to talk about things coming down to money, well, now lets talk about Congress. 80% of them (my guesstimate) are giving bogus deals to family and friends (and yes I can make a list if so desired). Murtha (D-PA) would have be near the top of that list. Your guesstimate of 80% might be low. And it's not just the wars making defense contractors rich. How many times has Congress added things like the recent proposal to have the Air Force buy more executive jets to cart them around in, without anyone noticing. It was a long time between Vietnam and Desert Storm, yet those defense contractors still found ways to stay rich (although the Carter years were a little lean for them).
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Post by kl on Aug 24, 2009 6:35:04 GMT -4
Was very well aware of this. Hence the reason why many, many Defense contracting companies would enjoy, and have been enjoying the endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. :-( kl, I feel that you are so anti-war and anti-Bush that anything associated with them you will spew out your statements of complete nonsense. Do you really feel the contractors and the companies enjoy the wars and having our troops in harms way? Yes, companies make money off of the wars, but even in times when there aren't wars they are researching and developing vital things to protect our country. Of course the companies make more money in times of war but to make a blanket statement saying many, many contractors are enjoying the war because of the money is ridiculous and unfair. I don't like war either, but I realize that sometimes war is necessary and that sometimes force is needed to protect our wonderful country. The day of 9/11 is a day that we will all remember for ever. Our large defense spending helps to thwart future attacks such as that awful attack on our country. Everyday there is not an attack on our country is a successful day. Obama came into the office with a huge deficit. He said he would shrink the deficit Obama is like a Gypsy-Salesman, he comes in with big talk, he robs you blind, and leaves you with nothing but feelings of anger. The only difference is that the Gypsy Salesmen leave and go on to rob someone else... not Obama, he just keeps robbing the same people again and again. He is like a really bad Robin Hood But Lynn? You would be absolutely 100% wrong. I'm not anti-Bush, I just didn't approve of everything he was doing while in office. I am anti-Iraq, but not Afghanistan. We went to Iraq on false and fabricated pretenses. We have killed more children, and civilians in Iraq, then the innocents killed on 9/11. Lets not forget our brave warriors who gave their all for the same fabrications. And can you please explain, when it has been roven that Saudis bankrolled the folks who flew the planes that day, no Saudi has been brought to justice? You seem to be anti Obama yourself Lynn...
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Post by emsguru on Aug 24, 2009 11:36:44 GMT -4
I also liked the comment of "looking at the glass half empty instead of half full". So we should look optimistically at the killing of innocent Iraqy civilians?
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Post by jetdoc on Aug 24, 2009 20:19:16 GMT -4
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Post by lynn on Aug 25, 2009 9:50:07 GMT -4
kl, I feel that you are so anti-war and anti-Bush that anything associated with them you will spew out your statements of complete nonsense. Do you really feel the contractors and the companies enjoy the wars and having our troops in harms way? Yes, companies make money off of the wars, but even in times when there aren't wars they are researching and developing vital things to protect our country. Of course the companies make more money in times of war but to make a blanket statement saying many, many contractors are enjoying the war because of the money is ridiculous and unfair. I don't like war either, but I realize that sometimes war is necessary and that sometimes force is needed to protect our wonderful country. The day of 9/11 is a day that we will all remember for ever. Our large defense spending helps to thwart future attacks such as that awful attack on our country. Everyday there is not an attack on our country is a successful day. Obama came into the office with a huge deficit. He said he would shrink the deficit Obama is like a Gypsy-Salesman, he comes in with big talk, he robs you blind, and leaves you with nothing but feelings of anger. The only difference is that the Gypsy Salesmen leave and go on to rob someone else... not Obama, he just keeps robbing the same people again and again. He is like a really bad Robin Hood But Lynn? You would be absolutely 100% wrong. I'm not anti-Bush, I just didn't approve of everything he was doing while in office. I am anti-Iraq, but not Afghanistan. We went to Iraq on false and fabricated pretenses. We have killed more children, and civilians in Iraq, then the innocents killed on 9/11. Lets not forget our brave warriors who gave their all for the same fabrications. And can you please explain, when it has been roven that Saudis bankrolled the folks who flew the planes that day, no Saudi has been brought to justice? You seem to be anti Obama yourself Lynn... There are some things that we will never agree on kl and I can accept that (however I still feel the need to speak up at times). As far as me being anti Obama, well, I guess I am. However, I would never wish any harm to our President. Its no secret that I like Bush, but I also disagreed with many things that he did and I would openly speak out against it. I would love to be able to support Obama's views, but so far I just can't. So far I have strongly disagreed with so much of what he has done and I honestly worry about the future of our country. A nationalized health plan would turn our country into a socialized society (I'm not sure if anyone on the left is disagreeing with that fact or if they just don't have a problem with it). Don't get me wrong when I condemn the idea, I would LOVE for everyone to have a health plan and I understand that there are people out there with pre-existing conditions etc. that can not get insurance and there are some who can't afford it, etc. What I do not like is the plan on the table. This is really an awful plan that is being rushed through. Unfortunately so many people have waited for so long for something to cross the table that a lot of the Democrats are rushing to push it through. Thankfully not all of the Democrats are. I am also upset how many, including our President, are trying to silence all opposition. Everyone has a right to speak their voice. Of course the President and the liberals have a right to speak their voice also and to contradict everything that is being said about them. However, I am feeling that two of our greatest rights in our country, freedom and the right to free speech are greatly being infringed. Not only do I feel that they are being infringed upon, I am very worried about the tactics being used. Although I am on the right side of the fence, that does not mean I jump on the bandwagon for everything the Republicans put on the table. I also speak about the Republicans when they do something wrong. I am very pleased that Obama did firmly state how he condemned the release of the terrorist in Scotland. I am also pleased that I have seen a black president in my life (I'm just not happy with the chosen one). I would also like to see a woman president. My worst nightmare would be Nancy Pelosi. My bottom line, I don't dislike Obama, I just dislike almost everything he has done and I also fear almost everything he is planning on doing. I pay a large amount in both state and federal taxes and I disagree with a lot of the waste that goes on with them. I also pay a lot in Medicare and the maximum in social security... none of which I will ever see by the time I am able to collect. I also pay for health insurance for the family which is quite high I know, I don't have to buy it, but I do. Half of my pay goes to the government (none of which is past taxes). I don't want to pay any more money. This plan is going to kill middle class families like mine. I know that you are going to say something like "I didn't want to pay for the war". Well, I don't really have an answer with you on that which wouldn't go back into the entire debate of our national defense. However, what I can say, is that a socialized plan like this is something that once it is in place will continue and grow and grow. This isn't like a war which will eventually come to an end (either peacefully or violently). Regardless of money, I just don't want any government involved in my health plan. I won't get into that since we are talking about deficit. I would love for Obama to throw out the current legislation and work on something reasonable which would be able to help those who can't get health insurance, without hurting and involving those who already do.
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Post by dej on Aug 26, 2009 6:14:18 GMT -4
Did you know the "new" 10 year estimate of a $9 triilion deficit isn't really new? Last week the White House revised the projected 10 year deficit from $7.1 trillion to their new estimate of $9 trillion. Claiming this is a new revised number, because conditions are worse than expected, is a little misleading. Obama submitted his "Era of Responsibility" budget in late February, projecting a $6.9 trillion defict. The CBO reviewed it and by mid-March they were projecting a 10 year deficit of $9.3 trillion, about the same "new" estimate the White House calculated 6 months later.
The estimated deficit spending for this year will only be $1.58 trillion instead of the 1.7 trillion projected in the February budget or the $1.84 trillion. The "savings" comes mainly from Obama's decision not to spend another $250 billion in bank bailout money that he had projected for. The new number is still more than triple the amount of the previous record setting defict of $455 billion set by Bush in FY 2008. Realistically the $9 trillion deficit probably won't be that low. Both the CBO & White House estimates are based on holding Federal spending at the rate of inflation over the next ten years. I'm not sure that has ever happened for even a single year in modern times, and I'm pretty postive that we have never seen that happen for 10 years in my lifetime. Just the 2010 appropriations bills already being worked have an 8% increase in domestic spending after inflation. The CBO numbers are also based on reduced domestic spending starting in 2011 when the stimulus ends, on programs like Head Start, food stamps and child nutrition. It estimates spending being reduced by over 30% on these types of programs. I'm betting that'll never happen either.
The CBO estimates regarding taxes aren't much better. They assume that 28 million middle class taxpayers will get hit by the Alternative Minimum Tax, something that both parties scramble to prevent from happening every year. They also assume that ALL of the Bush tax cuts will be allowed to expire, not just for the rich, but for lower & middle income earners as well. This assumes Obama won't keep his campaign promise of avoiding tax increases for people that earn less than $250,000 a year. If middle class tax cuts are kept in place and the AMT is adjusted to avoid hitting the middle class, this alone adds another $1.3 trillion to the projected $9 trillion.
The only hope for offsetting some of these numbers would be an economy that grows quickly enough to boost tax revenues. The White House had been projecting growth rates 3% or more. Every realistic number I've seen is closer to 2%. Unfortunately, the tax increases we are likely to see will probably slow down the growth, like the estimated trillion dollar cap & trade energy tax and the 8% payroll tax proposed in a House health care bill.
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