|
Post by constructr on May 28, 2015 13:06:33 GMT -4
Are people denied entry to the current shelter? If so, constr, where do THEY go now? I guess I'm just not understanding your question. How is this going to be different, location aside? Perhaps HM can answer this, truthfully??
|
|
|
Post by mikey on May 29, 2015 9:29:17 GMT -4
If a person cannot stay at the shelter a staff member drives them to a local hotel for the night, with food and other essentials. They also are assigned a Case Manager/ staff person who talks with them about shelter rules and then checks on them the following day to again go over shelter policies/ connect them to services etc.
|
|
|
Post by constructr on May 29, 2015 13:50:41 GMT -4
Riiiiiiight.
|
|
|
Post by shorti on May 31, 2015 7:40:37 GMT -4
Shorti, Again, you have failed to state what happens to them when they fail a sobriety or drug test, other than to say "They are not allowed in." Additionally, your comments about people who BUST THEIR A$$ES working 12 - 14 hours a day to provide a decent life for their family are pathetic, at best. You also FAIL to point out the charitable contributions "we" give because we WANT to. Not because we "have to". Perhaps, if "society" and government weren't so intent on "taking" from people who have succeeded in life, only to have it re-distributed to those who are simply milking the system for all it's worth, things just might be a little different!! I'm totally not invalidating that many if not most people bust their butts, work long days to provide for our families. I do it, my husband does it. My point is and I challenge you to disagree here... We live in an all about me society. Many of our kids don't know the value of a hard days work (mine included here at times), even in my generation (maybe yours too depending on your age), I see it. There are many that think the world revolves around them. I can do what I want when I want and who cares who it hurts/affects in the process. Tv, ads, even technology has Supported this. We give trophies for participation, even if you did nothing. We celebrate being a part of some organization but don't advocate and promote working and esrning your spot in that same organization. So when our kids go out and get jobs, they are hit with a dose of reality, that we as parents have tried to prepare them for but everything else says it's all about you and how you feel. Example, KIHS awards ceremony, heard people (even some of my family) complaining that it was the same 10 kids that got stuff. Actually had someone say yesterday "you know there are 300+ kids graduating, they should have distributed that money evenly". And when I mentioned, well they obviously put in the work, got the grades, and applied for said scholarships; I got "yea that's ridiculous". I was dumbfounded. This is the society I am talking about. I'm not thrilled that 30% or so of my salary goes to pay taxes and I'm certainly not happy about the way it's handled.... However, I vote, I can complain about it. I'm also an educated voter, sadly many are not. Why? Because it requires WORK to be educated. Again another symptom of the culture that we live in. You want to argue about where your tax dollars go fine, but that's not what this is meant for.... Yes our tax dollars are funding some of this sure but, our county/state/country's population has voted in those who make the rules... So let's change that. However, that had nothing to do with the particulars of the shelter that people are complaining about. To answer some questions, yes they are here already, living in cars or staying with a different friend nightly/weekly, sleeping in our woods, etc. yes they are on our trails, in our businesses, serving a in some way at times... But you wouldn't know it unless you got involved with someone outside of your circles. Where do they go if turned away? To a local hotel for the night and then picked up in the morning. The churches that sponsor and support the shelter provide rooms. I've seen it happen. Stop worrying about the people who the shelter serves and start talking to the shelter admin. Find out how they work. Unfortunately, the only way that will happen is if you get involved because they are a bit closed. Just stating facts that im sure you guys are aware of. I'm not disagreeing that there may have been some "underhandedness" in pushing this through. Never had I said anything like that. However I still have YET to see ANYONE offer a counter. Because the logic doesn't make sense. Put it in centreville where they are close to the same things you are complaining about here but near services. It fosters that whole "not in my neighborhood" mentality which is not going to win any arguments.
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jun 2, 2015 15:55:12 GMT -4
|
|
|
Post by ravens20 on Jun 2, 2015 23:42:30 GMT -4
The claim that viable alternatives have not been proposed is false. People have proposed alternatives, the supporters just don't agree (or care). However, it is not our responsibility to come up with an alternative location. We are allowed to object to something without coming up with an alternative, to suggest otherwise is absurd. If the state of Maryland decided to build a nuclear power plant at Terrapin Park we would all be within our right to object without having to come up with an alternative location. If someone bought a house next to you and decided to make it a halfway house for recently released sex offenders, you can object without being responsible for finding an alternative location. "Not in my neighborhood" is a perfectly good argument in many instances, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting certain things in your neighborhood. I do not want a homeless shelter, strip club, casino, fish processing plant, and countless other things built next to my house (I do not live next to the homeless shelter, just making a point). That does not mean that I don't care about the homeless, strippers, gamblers, or fisherman. I work full time and have a family, so I do not have time to find alternative locations for anything and everything that could possibly be built "in my neighborhood." There is a reason Haven Ministries tried to do this as quietly as possible, and there is a reason so many of the supporters are against an open discussion on this. If the "not in my neighborhood" mentality didn't win any arguments then they would have been completely open during the whole process and you wouldn't have any resistance. I also disagree that there are currently 44 homeless people roaming the streets of historic Stevensville spending their nights in the woods. One of the big issues, again, is that this is such a large shelter that people will be brought in from other areas. I do not doubt that there are people in the area that need help, but I think that many people living on the streets in downtown Stevensville and the surrounding woods would be visible. To the supporters, please answer honestly. Would you be ok with someone buying the houses on either side of you and turning them into a halfway house for drug addicts, alcoholics, and sex offenders? These people need a place to stay when they get out of jail, just like the homeless in Queen Anne's County need a shelter. Would you allow the homeless to set up tents behind your house? You're not a NIMBY, so I'm curious to see a good argument against that. If you truly have no problem with that and you currently have the homeless that can't get into the current shelter living in your backyard, then I will concede that you are a better person than I. Edit - Just to be clear, I personally have no problem with my tax dollars paying for a homeless shelter, or facilities to help drug addicts, alcoholics, people on welfare, etc... That is part of living in a functional society and it is all desperately needed.
|
|
|
Post by kidoode on Jun 3, 2015 8:55:58 GMT -4
Ravens20
You completely miss the concept of zoning. The shelter is proposed in a commercial zone. Any of the objectionable uses you list are probably allowed on the property in question. Assuming you live in a residential subdivision somewhere, none of them would be allowed next to you. Accordingly, your argument fails.
I suggest they move the shelter to Iowa somewhere and provide bus tickets for anyone who needs it. Then I want to buy that land for my crab composting operation. Folks ought to love that one in their "neighborhood".
Don't want to live next to commercial uses, don't buy in a commercial area. Simple.
Doode
|
|
dan
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by dan on Jun 3, 2015 8:59:56 GMT -4
Haven Ministries has released a series of videos describing the clientele and the location. Here are the links:
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jun 3, 2015 9:35:00 GMT -4
Ravens20 You completely miss the concept of zoning. The shelter is proposed in a commercial zone. Any of the objectionable uses you list are probably allowed on the property in question. Assuming you live in a residential subdivision somewhere, none of them would be allowed next to you. Accordingly, your argument fails. I suggest they move the shelter to Iowa somewhere and provide bus tickets for anyone who needs it. Then I want to buy that land for my crab composting operation. Folks ought to love that one in their "neighborhood". Don't want to live next to commercial uses, don't buy in a commercial area. Simple. Doode If I'm not mistaken, 325 State St. was RE-ZONED to Commercial/Mixed Use back in 2009 and apparently was done on the down low, for obvious reasons.
|
|
|
Post by ravens20 on Jun 3, 2015 9:54:37 GMT -4
Ravens20 You completely miss the concept of zoning. The shelter is proposed in a commercial zone. Any of the objectionable uses you list are probably allowed on the property in question. Assuming you live in a residential subdivision somewhere, none of them would be allowed next to you. Accordingly, your argument fails. I suggest they move the shelter to Iowa somewhere and provide bus tickets for anyone who needs it. Then I want to buy that land for my crab composting operation. Folks ought to love that one in their "neighborhood". Don't want to live next to commercial uses, don't buy in a commercial area. Simple. Doode Yes, I'm well aware of zoning laws, which supports my argument that "not in my neighborhood" is valid in many cases. That is the whole point of zoning laws. I am not saying that the shelter should not be placed in that location due to zoning laws. Not all commercial buildings are equal, which I think this instance points out rather well. My point was that just about everyone is a NIMBY to some degree, and there's nothing wrong with that. The opponents don't have a legal case against this, which is why I think it will be built regardless of the opposition. That doesn't mean that it wasn't a poor decision by those that pushed this through as quietly as possible. BTW I do not live next to this location, I would not buy next to a commercially zoned area for many reasons. I was on the fence in the beginning but the manner in which they tried to push this through really bothered me. Those videos are a good start, but it still seems a bit disingenuous to constantly compare this new shelter to previous shelters. From everything I've seen this is bigger than anything they've done before. I'm not overly concerned with bad things happening due to the shelter and you won't see me signing any petitions against it, but I think it's an interesting discussion to have.
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jun 3, 2015 15:19:39 GMT -4
Repeat, from the simple aspect of Parking this site is not suitable for the proposed structure. And there are much more important aspects but this just paints a picture of how non-compliant this site i. It will have approx. 50 occupants, when full, yet there are only 5 parking spaces, one of which is handicapped. That leaves 4 spaces. Just because someone is homeless, doesn't mean they don't have a car. Where are these people supposed to park??!! There isn't even enough parking for the "staff"!! This point alone demonstrates how this project was snuck through Planning and Zoning!!
If ANY other business were to submit a similar Site Plan to Planning and Zoning it would be rejected!!
|
|
|
Post by lainey on Jun 4, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -4
I dont believe the zoning on State street was changed in 2009. Mr. B's Seafood and the SHA garage have been on State street forever.
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jun 6, 2015 6:01:28 GMT -4
I dont believe the zoning on State street was changed in 2009. Mr. B's Seafood and the SHA garage have been on State street forever. I'm referring specifically to 325 State St.
|
|
|
Post by lainey on Jun 8, 2015 14:19:36 GMT -4
as far as I know the entire street is, and always has been SI, Suburban Industrial.
|
|
|
Post by fishfulthinking on Jun 17, 2015 20:18:21 GMT -4
Haven ministries has lied repeatedly over the entire project, facts are facts people! To tell people at 7am you have to get out for the day and be back by 7 pm is a joke. Stats show that most who visit shelters do so to get a meal and shower but would rather stay elsewheres, where does that mean for this location? The park, the trails etc. HM has no idea what they are getting into!
|
|
|
Post by emsguru on Jun 17, 2015 20:45:06 GMT -4
Haven ministries has lied repeatedly over the entire project, facts are facts people! To tell people at 7am you have to get out for the day and be back by 7 pm is a joke. Stats show that most who visit shelters do so to get a meal and shower but would rather stay elsewheres, where does that mean for this location? The park, the trails etc. HM has no idea what they are getting into! you're so right! its an undeniable fact (like the one you just stated about only needing showers) that the murder rate in Harbor view during the winter is astronomical! Rapes, murders, theft. I'd rather live in West Baltimore!
|
|
|
Post by deepsea on Jun 18, 2015 7:35:09 GMT -4
Proposed shelter size, number of beds reduced CENTREVILLE — Queen Anne’s County Commission President Jim Moran announced at the June 9 commission meeting that Gov. Larry Hogan and Md. Housing and Community Development Secretary Kenneth Holt had reached a tentative agreement with Haven Ministries Inc. to reduce the size of the proposed homeless shelter at 325 State Street in Stevensville in light of concerns raised by an opposition group of nearby residents. The proposed measures include reducing the size of the building by 20 percent, providing 12 beds on the second floor for transitional housing and 15 beds in the emergency shelter on the first floor and fencing around the property “to make it more palatable for the surrounding area,” Moran said. The previous design included 20 emergency shelter beds and seven transitional housing beds, and a total area of 8,623 square feet. Including block grants, matching local funds and money raised by Haven Ministries, the project was originally expected to cost about $2.7 million. The county must submit new architecture designs to the Md. Department of Community Development by July 6, so the plans may go before the Board of Public Works for consideration on July 22. The redesigns will include new cost estimates. “This is where the project stands now, and this is where the governor and Secretary Holt are 100 percent behind the project at the reduced size,” Moran said. Moran estimated the redesign will mean about a $500,000 savings to the state, but he said the county has had to spend money on each redesign, this being the third. County Administrator Gregg Todd said the Board of Public Works must approve the grant before the county can move forward. He said if the grant is approved, the county can begin to look at the cost of security, what is needed for security and other cost measures. “They have told us that if we make those changes and get the size of the building down and get the beds down, the governor will look on it favorably at the Board of Public Works,” Todd said. Krista Pettit, founder and executive director of Haven Ministries, said the original plan always included security measures. She said there have always been security cameras and security doors in the building plans, and plans call for a live-in staff member. “Haven Ministries will continue to follow our polices and procedures, which have to do with rules and accountability … in our facility, the background checks we do to make sure that everyone is safe,” she said. Pettit said the safe shelter program has been operated for the past nine years and the safe transitional housing program has been operated for more than three years in the same State Street location. “We are moving forward, and we’re just confident in the process,” she said. Commissioner Robert Buckey commended Moran on his work behind the scenes to try and find a compromise. As county commissioners, Buckey said it’s their job to find solutions and compromises. “I think I could support this … I have a couple other issues that we’re going to talk about,” Buckey said. “I’ve always said all along I do not want to see the shelter go away in the county. We need a homeless shelter. If this is the way to satisfy it, I think this could be a positive step.” Commissioner Steve Wilson said at the meeting he supported the project previously and will continue to do so. “It’s not that we are turning a deaf ear to what people are saying,” Moran said. “We are not going to abandon the homeless in a decision that’s taken us eight years to get here and (is a) permitted use of that site.” Opponents of the proposed shelter gathered at Old Love Point Park Monday night, June 15, at about 6:15 p.m. to speak out about their concerns. The meeting, organized last-minute, Mike Ranelli said, was sparked because of the proposed changes Moran mentioned. “This whole shelter situation, what it’s about, comes down to one thing, and that’s our children who use this area,” Ranelli said. “This is an area ... that’s designed for children in mind.” Multiple speakers said they were not against helping the homeless, just not at the State Street location. Ranelli said the plan has left a “horrible taste” in their mouths. “I truly believe that this location was built with children in mind — the park, the trail, the library, the four schools, the playground behind us here,” Steve Pringle said. “This area is utilized heavily by family and by children.” John Tvedt said State Street isn’t the proper location for a large emergency shelter. He said the shelter will be housing “men who have substance abuse problems and mental illness right next to where our kids play.” “I think really what we’re all asking for is a better location, one that serves the community, the children and also serves the homeless as well, some place closer to where services are available to them,” Tvedt said. www.stardem.com/news/local_news/article_71d48fd6-bce4-5739-80f7-b4018234870b.html
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jun 18, 2015 16:16:57 GMT -4
Moran is an idiot, as if we didn't know this already, for speaking for the Governor. Even Hogans office was surprised at his comments and I'm sure there will be retraction.
|
|
|
Post by fishfulthinking on Jun 18, 2015 16:53:44 GMT -4
Maybe he should do a southwest commercial,, "wanna get away" ! Lol
|
|
|
Post by cranky64 on Jul 12, 2015 12:45:38 GMT -4
That whole end of the street looks ghetto already. The updated plans I have see for this downsized shelter will look way out of place amongst all the junk yards and concrete plants. I'm pretty sure if this does not go through the County will be on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars and may have ripple effects down the road.
|
|
|
Post by kidoode on Jul 13, 2015 9:25:10 GMT -4
Whut you know from ghetto. Whut you know from Suburban Industrial?
Its a commercial area for cripes sake. It ain't gonna look like Prospect Bay. You don't want to live there- don't. Exercise your freedom of choice.
Doode
|
|
|
Post by pineapple head on Jul 14, 2015 19:29:48 GMT -4
|
|
|
Post by cranky64 on Jul 14, 2015 19:36:38 GMT -4
Oh boy, now they will have to raise taxes to pay all that money back. No matter, I'm sure the south island sewer project will not be the hot topic again.
|
|
|
Post by constructr on Jul 14, 2015 19:59:21 GMT -4
WOOO HOOOOO!!!! Finally, some sensible actions!!
|
|
|
Post by oriolesfan on Jul 14, 2015 21:21:00 GMT -4
Build it in Grasonville
|
|