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Post by lynn on Nov 6, 2009 17:42:45 GMT -4
#4 could have gotten him killed if he was in the Middle East. Thank God he will be in a military courtroom and hopefully he will get what he deserves. Agreed, I wouldn't think #4 would be a good thing to start doing there.
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Post by lynn on Nov 6, 2009 17:45:04 GMT -4
Someone dropped the ball in a major way with this guy. There were too many signs that he was troubled and into radical Islam. I would like to know how and why he was promoted to a Major with the poor performance evaluations.
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Post by stephadele on Nov 6, 2009 17:52:23 GMT -4
Then if he truly wanted out and exercised all his options, WHY wasnt he allowed to retire? WHY didnt the military just retire him? What benefit do they have in retaining him? I think poor recruitment and slim pickens for an unpopular war coupled with public knowledge of the psychological consequences that arent even acknowledged much less treated by the military has alot to do with that.
Why does someone need to "act out" pathologically by drinking, drugging in order to be let go from the military?...Talk about reactionary, immature and ignorant........the system merely reinforcing bad behaviors and totally cuts off honest communication... That says more about the dysfunction of the military in that it would force people to do that in order to leave than anything else. And it definitely encourages lies and dishonesty....Making the situation even more muddled about what is truth and what is fiction.
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Post by speedergurl68 on Nov 6, 2009 19:30:14 GMT -4
Thank God he will be in a military courtroom and hopefully he will get what he deserves. Section 3 of the US Constitution prescribes death for treason. I, however, still think the "old" punishment is more than apropos: This section is from the book "Popular Law Library Vol10 Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Wills, Administration", by Albert H. Putney. Also available from Amazon: Popular Law-Dictionary. Section 10. Punishment For TreasonThe punishment for this crime by the common law is a forfeiture of all property and honors and attainder of blood; also the death penalty.21 Blackstone: The offender shall be drawn to the gallows, and not be carried or walk, though usually (by connivance at length ripened by humanity into law), a sledge or hurdle is allowed to preserve the offender from the extreme torment of being dragged on the ground or pavement. He shall be hanged by the neck, and then cut down alive; his entrails shall be taken out and burned while he is yet alive; his head shall be cut off and his body divided into four parts. His head and quarters shall be at the disposal of the king.22
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 6, 2009 19:40:44 GMT -4
In this economy, I am all for saving tax dollars. More than enough tax dollars have been spent on this SOB. It would not bother me if they just disconnect his ventilator tube now.
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Post by lynn on Nov 6, 2009 23:17:57 GMT -4
Then if he truly wanted out and exercised all his options, WHY wasnt he allowed to retire? Why does someone need to "act out" pathologically by drinking, drugging in order to be let go from the military?...Talk about reactionary, immature and Going on a shooting spree isn't reactionary? Lets not create excuses for the man who committed this treason. He was a professional counselor....
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Post by Frank on Nov 6, 2009 23:35:44 GMT -4
In this economy, I am all for saving tax dollars. More than enough tax dollars have been spent on this SOB. It would not bother me if they just disconnect his ventilator tube now. I'm all for saving the taxpayer money. I can run down to Walmart and pick up a box of ammo. The government can even keep the extra bullets, you know; one for Osama, one for Charles Manson, one for OJ, one for the obnoxious "Sham-Wow" guy, etc.
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Post by dej on Nov 7, 2009 1:10:48 GMT -4
And lets try to ignore the other "crazies" posting stuff like this on the incident: Michelle Malkin's site. And after culling the real gems, I give you, The Truth: I don't look for too many factual postings on sites like Malkin's or Hannity's, any more than I look for factual postings from Huffington's or Olbermann's blogs. All of them are there to throw red meat to their followers.
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Post by dej on Nov 7, 2009 5:01:16 GMT -4
Then if he truly wanted out and exercised all his options, WHY wasnt he allowed to retire? WHY didnt the military just retire him? What benefit do they have in retaining him? I think poor recruitment and slim pickens for an unpopular war coupled with public knowledge of the psychological consequences that arent even acknowledged much less treated by the military has alot to do with that. Why does someone need to "act out" pathologically by drinking, drugging in order to be let go from the military?...Talk about reactionary, immature and ignorant........the system merely reinforcing bad behaviors and totally cuts off honest communication... That says more about the dysfunction of the military in that it would force people to do that in order to leave than anything else. And it definitely encourages lies and dishonesty....Making the situation even more muddled about what is truth and what is fiction. In answer to your first question, based on what has been reported, he doesn't seem to have enough time in service to qualify for a retirement. As for the comment on "poor recruitment and slim pickens", I find that rather insulting to the men & women that have VOLUNTEERED to serve. My first enlistment was at the tail end of the Vietnam war. That military was much closer to the opinion you seem to have of today's military. I just retired from the reserves as a senior NCO a couple years ago. Even after several years of the war, my opinion was that the majority of people I supervised then, both active & reserve, were capable and professional, not a force built by "poor recruitment and slim pickens". That includes first term enlistees as well as career military. Anyone who has enlisted or re-enlisted over the last eight years should have known a deployment was likely to be a part of their future. Even when enlisting in peacetime, people should have known that if war breaks out, they have an obligation to serve. My enlistments/re-enlistments were both during war and peacetime, and being a realistic type of person, I was always aware of both the risk and obligation. The enlistment contract does not include an escape clause if someone happens to disagree with the war. It also does not have a "buyout" clause for reimbursing college money when someone decides that, while peacetime or stateside service was OK, they'd rather not do a deployment. To me, those people fit your description as "reactionary, immature and ignorant" and "dysfunctional", not the military that is holding them to the contract and obligation they volunteered for. "reactionary, immature and ignorant" and "dysfunctional" are also terms I would use for a mass murderer like Hasan.
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Post by moosie on Nov 7, 2009 7:27:38 GMT -4
[quote
I'm all for saving the taxpayer money. I can run down to Walmart and pick up a box of ammo. The government can even keep the extra bullets, you know; one for Osama, one for Charles Manson, one for OJ, one for the obnoxious "Sham-Wow" guy, etc.[/quote]
sham-wow guy already bit the bullet.
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Post by dej on Nov 7, 2009 7:30:10 GMT -4
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Post by moosie on Nov 7, 2009 7:38:01 GMT -4
it is sad to lose so many dedicated people, for their families and for the people they touched.
one has to wonder why hasan joined. surely not so he could become a mass murderer some day. we may never know what happened to him and why he did what he did.
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Post by hisea on Nov 7, 2009 9:44:18 GMT -4
My heart goes out to the family's and friend of the victims that were killed that day at Fort Hood! May God give them a special place in heaven! The killer was/ is a Muslim, say what you want it sure looks and sounds like an attack by a man who used his religion as a excuse to kill others! What better way to justify your action of killing a fellow human than using God as your excuse! Hasans fear of going to war and killing Muslims was also unfounded, he would of never been in position to kill anyone! As a doctor he didn't even have to carry a weapon! All he had to do was sign a paper saying he was a conscientious objector!
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Post by falgar25 on Nov 7, 2009 10:16:43 GMT -4
The killer was/ is a Muslim, say what you want it sure looks and sounds like an attack by a man who used his religion as a excuse to kill others! What better way to justify your action of killing a fellow human than using God as your excuse! And just what about the shooting makes it clear that he used his religion as an excuse? It is the media and WE who have assigned that as a reason, not Hasan. From what we know at this point it is just as likely that harassment drove him to do this as it is that his beliefs in Islam caused it.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 10:28:54 GMT -4
[quote sham-wow guy already bit the bullet. Billy Mays died from drugs, the Sham-Wow guy is still alive.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 11:48:32 GMT -4
The killer was/ is a Muslim, say what you want it sure looks and sounds like an attack by a man who used his religion as a excuse to kill others! What better way to justify your action of killing a fellow human than using God as your excuse! And just what about the shooting makes it clear that he used his religion as an excuse? It is the media and WE who have assigned that as a reason, not Hasan. From what we know at this point it is just as likely that harassment drove him to do this as it is that his beliefs in Islam caused it. He would not have been harrassed had he not constantly tried to shove his religion down everybody's throat, that fact has been documented. He was a big boy and a psychiatrist, he should have been able to handle it. If everyone that is harrassed or bullied and lost their job went on a killing spree, the population would greatly decrease.
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Post by bchevy on Nov 7, 2009 11:53:14 GMT -4
...................... If everyone that was bullied goes out and shoots the bullier, quite a few people would be dead. Is there a 24 hour echo in here?
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Post by falgar25 on Nov 7, 2009 12:01:38 GMT -4
And just what about the shooting makes it clear that he used his religion as an excuse? It is the media and WE who have assigned that as a reason, not Hasan. From what we know at this point it is just as likely that harassment drove him to do this as it is that his beliefs in Islam caused it. He would not have been harrassed had he not constantly tried to shove his religion down everybody's throat, that fact has been documented. He was a big boy and a psychiatrist, he should have been able to handle it. If everyone that is harrassed or bullied and lost their job went on a killing spree, the population would greatly decrease. Don't read into what I wrote. I didn't claim he did this because he was harassed, I claimed there is no more evidence that this happened due to his religion than there is evidence that it happened because he was harassed. I don't know and I don't claim to know and it bothers me when others claim to have some knowledge that they certainly do not have. For instance, how do we know he would not have been harassed if it were not for his evangelism? I saw a number of people harassed based on all kinds of things that had nothing to do with religion.
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 12:04:39 GMT -4
He would not have been harrassed had he not constantly tried to shove his religion down everybody's throat, that fact has been documented. He was a big boy and a psychiatrist, he should have been able to handle it. If everyone that is harrassed or bullied and lost their job went on a killing spree, the population would greatly decrease. Don't read into what I wrote. I didn't claim he did this because he was harassed, I claimed there is no more evidence that this happened due to his religion than there is evidence that it happened because he was harassed. I don't know and I don't claim to know and it bothers me when others claim to have some knowledge that they certainly do not have. For instance, how do we know he would not have been harassed if it were not for his evangelism? I saw a number of people harassed based on all kinds of things that had nothing to do with religion. I was just stating that if he was harrassed it was his religion that was the cause of it. Sorry if you thought I was reading more into your statement, much like you read more into mine.
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Post by stephadele on Nov 7, 2009 12:14:07 GMT -4
Just because one is a psychiatrist doesnt mean he is supposed to "handle it" regarding harrassment without adequate help...Its that kind of constant stuffing with no help or outlet that leads to blow outs like this... I knew a very popular primary care physician on the Cape who thought she was supposed to stuff it regarding decades of domestic violence by her husband...Stuffing it ended in a confrontation in which she killed him while he was atttacking one of her sons......She recently just got her medical license back....There was no place on the Cape for her to receive confidential help regarding this....She would have had to drive over 30 miles to even get counseling and support out side of her area. We dont know, but this might have been the same situation with the shooter....Just where is he supposed to get help that is confidential and doesnt violate his privacy?.....with his patients ?...That question hasnt been brought up here.. I dont think so.......Any healthcare provider in a smaller community who is looking for help runs into this same situation....Killeen/Ft. Hood is not a large community, eveyone knows everyone elses business....What if he was living in KI?...Since that mental health facility is closed in Chestertown, where would he have gone for help here?
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 12:24:59 GMT -4
Just because one is a psychiatrist doesnt mean he is supposed to "stuff it" regarding harrassment...Its that kind of constant stuffing that leads to blow outs like this... I knew a very popular primary care physician on the Cape who thought she was supposed to stuff it regarding decades of domestic violence by her husband...Stuffing it ended in a confrontation in which she killed him while he was atttacking one of her sons......She recently just got her medical license back....There was no place on the Cape for her to receive confidential help regarding this....She would have had to drive over 30 miles to even get counseling and support out side of her area. We dont know, but this might have been the same situation with the shooter....Just where is he supposed to get help that is confidential and doesnt violate his privacy?.....with his patients ?...That question hasnt been brought up here.. I dont think so.......Any healthcare provider in a smaller community who is looking for help runs into this same situation....Killeen is not a large community, eveyone knows everyone elses business....What if he was living in KI?...Since that mental health facility is closed in Chestertown, where would he have gone for help here??? A 30 mile drive outside her area would have been worth it. If he was attacking her son, most likely that was not the first time. Because you live in a tight-knit area and people would find out, that is no excuse to put up with abuse and no excuse to subject your children to abuse. Her being an intelligent and educated woman should have gotten out sooner. I realize many women are too weak to get out of their situations but that is no excuse.
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Post by stephadele on Nov 7, 2009 12:30:38 GMT -4
Without knowing her situation and living in it, its very easy to say she should have just left him....Most people looking at it from the outside without knowing the reality of it often think that.....Oversimplifying a very complex and dangerous situation. She happened to be stalked and harrassed and threatened by him for years whenever she DID leave so that alone wasnt an option. He also was a police officer so he had "connections" of a corrupt system of others to cover for him. It isnt a matter of weakness but rather strength regarding not getting out impulsively but rather being wise and prudent to the situation one is in before acting on it. And its common knowledge that the most dangerous time for a battered woman to be killed is actually when she leaves the batterer....so she has to think carefully and plan accordingly when she does leave...For the average woman, that can take months or years to get the money and resources and housing and connections to actually do that.... An intelligent and educated woman knows that firsthand, by the number of battered women she sees as patients. She isnt responsible for subjecting her children to her husband's battering behavior..He alone is responsible for that..It isnt her responsibility to prevent her children from being abused by him because she cant prevent it......Only he can do that...He can stalk and harrass and eventually kill her regardless of the actions on her part. Been there seen that many times..
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 12:44:11 GMT -4
I am well aware the most dangerous time for many women who suffer spousal abuse is when they leave. More than half of the men in jail for spousal abuse killed their spouses. Where there is a will, there is a way. You said she spent decades being abused by him well I think she had plenty of time to find other options. She could have moved to the other side of the country to get away from him, she is educated and could have supported her family. If he followed her she could have taken legal action against him. There is help out there for people that need it, you just have to go after it. And I do hold her partially responsible for the abuse her children suffered by the hands of her husband. I am sick and tired of women not being held responsible for their children when the women choose to stay with men that abuse.
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Post by stephadele on Nov 7, 2009 12:51:32 GMT -4
Again, when your husband is a police officer and can stalk and kill you if you leave, you are oversimplifying the matter. I think its best to assume you arent in her shoes and dont know her situation so its best not to judge. Most women I worked with were in the process of leaving or preparing to leave an abusive situation but this takes time. They arent "choosing" to stay with a batterer by any means. So please dont oversimply her situation based upon your impressions... And there isnt enough shelters out there for battered women.....Ive worked for weeks calling numerous places to find a shelter for women that had a bed AND accepted her boys...Most shelters dont accept boys over a certain age....so where does she put them?.....what if she doesnt have a car to get to a shelter 30 miles away?...What if she needs to look for a job?...Who will watch her children?...She cant call her spouse or family for help, then her abusive spouse would find her and stalk her....Ive had women clients whose husbands actually found them at a shelter or work.... Those that do find shelters can only stay there for days before having to leave... Im sick and tired of the public's misinformation about battered women and the lack of supports and help for them .
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Post by safetildecember on Nov 7, 2009 12:55:27 GMT -4
You said she had decades of abuse by him, so I think somewhere in those decades she could have come up with a solution and found a place to go. How old were her kids when she killed their father? Most likely she had been abused by her husband before she got pregnant by him.
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