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Post by GPSoff56days on Nov 25, 2008 14:26:15 GMT -4
Do you think there will be a big to do if Vick returns to the football field? What team would hire him? I think people were not happy about the dogfighting but I bet many football fans will not hold it against him. I am sure there will be plenty of excuses like " he did not live there" or " it was other people, not him" blah blah blah. I do think it is a shame that he was prosecuted and many other people who are not famous do the same thing and get away with it. Is anything happening to the local creeps that got caught recently using a puppy as a fighting pitbull training tool?
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Post by moosie on Nov 25, 2008 15:09:50 GMT -4
i certainly hold it against him and anyone like him. he does not belong among civilized people--even football players.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 25, 2008 15:17:41 GMT -4
Well, he's about finished doing the time for the crime. Perhaps he has learned his lesson and shall be a better man for it.
If the NFL allows him to return to the Gridiron, then so be it.
Isn't that what our justice system is all about, crime, punishment, rehabilitation and a second a chance?
After all they allowed Mike Tyson to return to boxing..........
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Post by moosie on Nov 25, 2008 15:20:06 GMT -4
and two wrongs make it right? he should get a second chance at life, but not necessarily in the nfl, not necessarily living large like he used to, etc.
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Post by GPSoff56days on Nov 25, 2008 17:04:06 GMT -4
I think what Vick did is much worse than what Tyson did.
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Post by KimberlyMMills on Nov 25, 2008 17:06:44 GMT -4
I like Vick as a football player but what he did was pretty bad. I am a pitbull lover, I wish I could have one.
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Post by outdoorsman on Nov 25, 2008 17:39:45 GMT -4
Why not. Most of the players in the NFL have criminal records anyway. His is just more publicized...
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Post by highlander73 on Nov 26, 2008 1:49:46 GMT -4
The NFL is a job, and like all criminals we want them to have jobs when they get out instead of doing more bad things. I know the NFL seems like a glitzy, cushy job, and maybe it is, but if you deny him the right to pursue it then might as well tell other criminals what jobs they can and cannot apply for.
If the OP was referring to the NFL league as a commercial entity and asking if they as a commercial entity should take a moral high ground and ban him, then I agree with others that they should have a standard and uphold it. But if you were referring to this like it should be a law or something, then absolutely not.
Easiest way to not allow Vick back in NFL is to boycott the games he plays in - hit them where it counts, the wallet.
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Post by formerkiguy on Nov 26, 2008 3:45:16 GMT -4
I have considered of not being a sports fan in general of the pro-ranks. How many chances does the average Joe get in life? For one, they make way too much and then cry when they can't get 10 mil a year when a team offers 9.
I despise the NBA for allowing Ron Artest back in the league after going into the stands and attacking a fan - sure the fan provoked the incident but when a person is a PROFESSIONAL making MILLIONS entertaining FANS who need to save to afford a ticket to help pay their INFLATED SALARY... they need to have control.
Now before you jump me about my avator of the cowboys - I despise them for even signing Pacman Jones - prime example of the many chances given to a pro player that would never, ever be given to one of us. However, I been a cowboy fan since the 70's and just tough to give up on them right now but I am leaning towards the Texans ;D.
I am glad baseball has somewhat of a strong anti-drug policy but they still give too many chances to still play. I say you get one second chance, no more.
Anyways back to the topic... HELL NO Vick should not be allowed in the league again but if anyone signs him I am almost positive good ol' Jerry Jones will give him a few mil.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 7:36:21 GMT -4
Well formerkiguy, your not worthy to have the Star as your Aviator if you have been a fan that long and even thinking about jumping ship. SHAME ON YOU.
You know what? How well do you know your neighbors, your co-workers, they guy that serves you coffee, the instructor at the community college? Many people have a past that they aren't proud of. Many people have had their skirmishes with the law, and there are a lot of people who have criminal records for doing bad if not worse things than Celebrities do. The only difference is that they don't have the media dogging their every move and making much more of a situation but talking about it constantly. yet there they are making lives for themselves doing what they know and none are the wiser.
Do I agree with what Michael Vicks did? OH HELL NO. Especially since I do have pitbulls myself.
But do I believe that he should be banned from football because of it? No I do not. If he was a professional dog breeder, then yes I would back banning him from that.
A lot of people don't understand why Pete Rose was banned from Baseball, I do, and I fully support it. What he did was detrimental to the integrity of the sport.
What Micheal Vick did has nothing to do with the sport. I don't buy it for one minute that because of the wealth he amassed was the reason he did it in the first place.
Yea, his conduct was unbecoming to a human being, and not a great role model, but Charles Barkley said it best..in his ..I am not a role model. monolog, and I can respect that.
As far as the Cowboys signing Andrew Jones, I just have no words for that, the NFL didn't have to let him back into the League; but then again, the NFL doesn't always stand strong when it comes to decisions concerning players. They don't hold them accountable like they should.
But then again.....Pro Sports is big business.....Lots and Lots of fans willing to shell out the dough with out blinking an eye.....
But that's neither here nor there.
I doubt any team that would eventually sign Vick would lose any Real Fans.
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Post by moosie on Nov 26, 2008 8:04:00 GMT -4
plenty of potentially good football (and other -ball) players out there or coming up, some of whom i'll bet are not also budding criminals. it's time the teams stopped hiring and rehiring thugs. a message will be sent, good players will still be there, games will still be won, money will still be made. it will not stop unless the team owners/managers/etc. grow some cojones.
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Post by its moosie on Nov 26, 2008 8:52:31 GMT -4
I doubt any team that would eventually sign Vick would lose any Real Fans. has anyone missed him? have there been any real fans lost? or any fans?
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Post by shoreterp on Nov 26, 2008 9:03:12 GMT -4
He has three strikes against him returning as an NFL quarterback:
#1 - He wasn't a very good quarterback BEFORE he went to jail. He is an incredible athlete, but probably in the bottom half to bottom third of the NFL as a quarterback.
#2 - He will have a couple extra years on him and will be way out of practice. He's 28 now and will probably be 30 by the time he gets back. Most NFL teams are looking for younger guys
#3 - It would be a PR nightmare for any team taking him. Not only is he a convicted felon but he is an animal abuser on top of it. Not a good sell there for most teams.
I could see him getting a shot maybe with Oakland since they love retreads and rehab thug players, but I don't think it would last long. Some team out there will make the mistake and sign him but I think it will be over almost as quick as it started.
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Post by mcbeth on Nov 26, 2008 9:40:57 GMT -4
I agree with the notion of giving folks a second chance, but there is nothing that says that Vick should or has to be given another chance in football. If a team chooses to sign him, well, that's their option, and I respect the right to hire whomever one chooses. I hope it's not one of the two teams I support, because my personal feelings about what a low-life the guy is would likely cause me to decide to drop that one team, I hate to say it, just out of lack of respect for their decision to do so. (I also don't think anyone "owed" Barry Bonds a job, as he so obviously thinks, but that's another thread for another time).
I will say that convicts have so much stacked against them. They are to blame for their own troubles, but if someone wants to change, they should have some way to make a living outside of "the life". I have worked at a truck driving school in the past, and found that this is one area in which convicted felons truly have a chance at redemption. Convicts have few options upon leaving prison to make a decent living, so it's little wonder so many of them return to a life of crime if they are already inclined to that lifestyle in the first place. I witnessed many young men and women making a change in their lives because employers gave them a chance once they completed their training and passed the CDL test. I hope that they are staying employed and out of the "old life", because even one less criminal out there is obviously better for all of us.
Now, as to Mr. Vick; he was given chances and opportunities that many young men in his situation could only dream of. He was able to leave (and bring his family out of) a horrible neighborhood, attend college, and have a chance at wealth that few people could have dreamed of. He chose to leave college and then to waste many opportunities and his talents to do something cruel, stupid and illegal. What a waste, and what a pinhead. Unfortunately there will be kids who will still idolize this waste of oxygen (I agree with Charles Barkley's "don't make me a role-model" bit, but unfortunately, kids WILL pay attention to folks drawing attention to themselves, even idiots like Vick. One of my favorite athletes? Bo Jackson; not only a talented athlete but the man went back to school and completed his degree). I just have to wonder what kind of PR spin a team would have to put on acquiring Vick, but then again, Pacman has managed to continue to play and it doesn't seem to worry many of their fans, either. Me, personally? I will happily sit in the crowd and do something I almost never do; I will "boo" the man if he returns to the field. (I only "boo" the Cowboys; sorry Eine! Otherwise I am a mostly well-behaved fan in the crowd). ;D
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 10:02:28 GMT -4
The point I am making about Real Fans, in the long run, they SUPPORT THE TEAM...not just one player, I am not a Fan of Jerry Jones the cowboys owner, hate the man with a passion and the decisions he makes...grrrrrrr....But I still love my Cowboys and I always will.... no matter if they win or lose or join a prison football leage...
Any real fan of a team, may not like that a team picked up Michael Vick (and we are all just guessing here, there is no real info if he is going to return even if he could....) but I just can't see them changing teams because of that....(unless they are redskin fans...because they bandwagon jump all the time...*yes I am mostly a well-behaved fan in the crowd as well*
(yea and just about every cowboy fan out there I know wasn't too happy about Adam Jones being signed with the cowboys, and hope he doesn't ccome back after the suspension., but we still love our team....)
But the real point is this, I don't like what he did, I think he should have been thrown into the pit and and been mauled to near death and left to die....But unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the American justice system doesn't do an eye for an eye, so he has paid for his crime, and now should be allowed to return to society and live and do (play football) if that is what he wants to do.
Put yourself in his shoes. If you did something really negligent and horrible and served your time, would you want the public to continually persecuting you for it, long after it was over and done with it? Would you want to be banned from doing something you were good at? I don't think so.
People make mistakes. If your going to give someone a second chance, then you should do so with out any strings.
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Post by kl on Nov 26, 2008 10:18:39 GMT -4
The point I am making about Real Fans, in the long run, they SUPPORT THE TEAM...not just one player, I am not a Fan of Jerry Jones the cowboys owner, hate the man with a passion and the decisions he makes...grrrrrrr....But I still love my Cowboys and I always will.... no matter if they win or lose or join a prison football leage...
Any real fan of a team, may not like that a team picked up Michael Vick (and we are all just guessing here, there is no real info if he is going to return even if he could....) but I just can't see them changing teams because of that....(unless they are redskin fans...because they bandwagon jump all the time...*yes I am mostly a well-behaved fan in the crowd as well*
Nice grouping there Eine. Those band wagon jumpers? Are not "Real" Redskin fans either. But in that comment, you collectively grouped every "Real" Redskin fan into. :-(
But as far as Vick goes? He just may be given that second chance. I also own a pit. But I've never in my life, killed a dog with my own hands, as Vick has been accused of doing. I also wasn't a QB on the Atlanta Falcons, whose owner, pretty much stated that Vick was the future, and rewarded him with that huge contract. And who had asked Vick, when these charges of dog fighting first started appearing over a year ago, had asked Vick if what was being said was true, and Vick denied it at the time. So I really don't think Vick will be wearing a Falcon's uniform anytime soon.
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Post by sharon on Nov 26, 2008 10:30:48 GMT -4
I have been a sports fan for many years BUT I dont agree with a lot of their policy's. I know there are many that are doing less than legal things however if you get caught 'YOU'RE OUT' period. There are a lot of young athletes to choose from why would teams want to keep a convicted criminal. I know that they have payed their debt to the law but when in the public's limelight more is expected. When someone gets the pay these people get they should be held to higher standard. They know the rules & if they are broken they should be gone. FOR GOOD.
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Post by moosie on Nov 26, 2008 11:20:15 GMT -4
PWould you want to be banned from doing something you were good at? People make mistakes. If your going to give someone a second chance, then you should do so with out any strings. omg!! isn't that why these "geniuses" went to college? so they would have a fallback? and why should the second chance be without any strings? this creep is getting out EARLY! makes you wonder why.
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 11:26:08 GMT -4
Whatever KL... I wasn't lumping in all Redskins fans. just using them as an example..but hey if the feather fits....then so be it......
I know my opinon on this subject about Vick isn't popular. but it's my opinion. In the big scheme of things.....it's not that important is it!!!
and Here I thought we were having a civilized conversation.................
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 11:29:43 GMT -4
Why should the second chance have strings?
What does it matter that he is getting out early? I am sure his sentencing reads "early release possible, or however they word it" due to good behavior or whatever....
Or are you implying something shadier??? Everything he does or is associated with is now suspect???
Just remember this, you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't necessarily make you more right or wrong than the person who doesn't see things the same way.....(I live by those words as well)
Actually, moosie, i find your last post remarks to be quite condescending, there are a lot of college educated people out there who can't fall back on their educational degrees to support themselves... oh and if Michael Vicks was communications (as so many of them are)..then you probably would be raising hell about him commentating on ESPN.
So you still would be perscuting the man, in everything he does after football.
No possibliity of second chances from you at all is there?
But hey, whatever....it's all just speculation at this point!!
Popular or not, I still think he should be allowed to play football once released!!!
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 11:38:45 GMT -4
WHOO HOO!!! Watch my Karma Dive!!! WHOO HOO!!! ........... LOL!!!
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Post by kl on Nov 26, 2008 12:36:19 GMT -4
Vick was in Virginia yesterday, where he pleaded guilty to the charges against him in Virginia. Judge has yet to decide on the sentence.
And if a college educated person, with a degree is unable to fall back on that college education and degree for a career, or a job, is that our fault? Or just a bad choice on that college educated athlete?
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Post by DC Guy on Nov 26, 2008 12:52:27 GMT -4
Micheal is a great player and human being who made a minor behavior error and should be able to return to the NFL and continue his esteemed career
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Post by einebierbitte on Nov 26, 2008 12:56:05 GMT -4
KL.....if a college educated person can't support himself/herself with their degree or with out their degree, I believe the fault is theirs.
Mike Tyson was convicted of Rape and given a second chance at boxing.
Terrapin, I believe as you do, an eye for an eye, and that people that are convicted of violent and heinous crimes should be made to suffer in the same manner as the victems.
But as American's, that's just not socially acceptable. What is acceptable is rehabilitation by incarceration and that every man has a right to a second chance once his time has been served.
I am sorry, everyone has their hackles raised. There is no reason for people to get all up in arms about something that may or may not happen...
as far as the rape comment goes....I guess my decision would have to be made on whether the rape was rape, or more along the lines well I changed my mind aftewards because he is worth a lot of money and I can get something out of it........(I know that remark is gonna stir a hornets nest up....)
Whatever my reasons for saying Vick should be able to return to football, does not take away from the fact that I don't condone what he did, as I said before he should be thrown into a pit and mauled to near death and then be left to die.....I am not disputing any of that.... I am just saying that he has rights to pursue his life to include playing pro football after his sentence is served
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Post by GPSoff56days on Nov 26, 2008 12:58:52 GMT -4
Vick wasn't accused of petty theft, unarmed robbery, or a "white-collar" crime... he was convicted of a particularly heinous and disgusting cruel acting of inhuman nature propagated on voiceless and utterly defenseless victims. This is a crime that involves emotional responses and passion. Had he been convicted of rape and been released after just a few years would you still tout the "give him a 2nd chance" line? Doubtful. To see him returned to a public position as a prominent sports figure would be a seriously reprehensible indictment of our society's degredation - it shouldn't be allowed by society. Personally I hope some animal rights group kidnaps him and beats him to within an inch of his life, then lets him starve to death in agonizing pain. Never seen again, the justice meted out quietly. let people wonder what happened to him. Why? For the same reason that rapists and child molesters/abusers need to be removed from society in a more permanent way than jail - abuse of innocents can not be tolerated. Cruel? That's the point. ;D You should be a lawyer or judge or something. How about State's Attorney?
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