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Post by islandgirl on Jul 23, 2009 17:41:41 GMT -4
Whats interesting is that after reading information available, the only racist seems to be Mr. Gates. And his buddy, BO. THat is what I was referring to about everything being racial. If things had been reversed, do you think we would be having this discussion? I dont think so...
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Post by pete1 on Jul 23, 2009 18:37:15 GMT -4
Food for thought........A 911 call in itself is not probable cause. Anybody can drop a dime.....The Burden of proof is on the cop, not on Gates.....Gates could have shut the door on the cop and went to bed. He committed no crime......A citizen is not required to produce ID unless there is enough probable cause to arrest the person in the first place. Exception= While operating a motorvehicle....Gates is 58, and most burglars are young junkies.....The MSP and other police departments were successfully sued for the racial profiling of blacks.....The disorderly charge was unlawful in the first place. How can you be disorderly in your house?.......I don't see this as racial, but as usual arrogance to the public. A good cop would have handled the situation differently.
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Post by bchevy on Jul 23, 2009 18:50:34 GMT -4
Whats interesting is that after reading information available, the only racist seems to be Mr. Gates. And his buddy, BO. Right on. As the officer said Obama needs to "butt out" and for Gates being as educated as he is suppose to be you think he would think twice before throwing out the race card. AND you would THINK that GATES would be THANKFUL that the police got there in time HAD THERE BEEN A BURGLARY GOING ON! I CALL IDIOT ON GATES
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Post by linda712 on Jul 23, 2009 19:02:08 GMT -4
Excerpt from this link:
The White House said Thursday that Obama did not intend to call the officer "stupid."
Spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters that Obama felt that when it was clear that Gates was not a burglary suspect last week, "at that point, cooler heads on all sides should have prevailed."
"Let me be clear, he was not calling the officer stupid," Gibbs told reporters. He said Obama felt that "at a certain point the situation got far out of hand."
Don't ya just love politicians!
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Post by island tech on Jul 23, 2009 19:43:42 GMT -4
Food for thought........A 911 call in itself is not probable cause. Anybody can drop a dime.....The Burden of proof is on the cop, not on Gates.....Gates could have shut the door on the cop and went to bed. He committed no crime......A citizen is not required to produce ID unless there is enough probable cause to arrest the person in the first place. Exception= While operating a motorvehicle....Gates is 58, and most burglars are young junkies.....The MSP and other police departments were successfully sued for the racial profiling of blacks.....The disorderly charge was unlawful in the first place. How can you be disorderly in your house?.......I don't see this as racial, but as usual arrogance to the public. A good cop would have handled the situation differently. Except the fact that Mr Gates exited his home and continued to harass the officer in a loud manor.
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Post by falgar25 on Jul 23, 2009 19:45:58 GMT -4
Food for thought........A 911 call in itself is not probable cause. Anybody can drop a dime.....The Burden of proof is on the cop, not on Gates.....Gates could have shut the door on the cop and went to bed. He committed no crime......A citizen is not required to produce ID unless there is enough probable cause to arrest the person in the first place. Exception= While operating a motorvehicle....Gates is 58, and most burglars are young junkies.....The MSP and other police departments were successfully sued for the racial profiling of blacks.....The disorderly charge was unlawful in the first place. How can you be disorderly in your house?.......I don't see this as racial, but as usual arrogance to the public. A good cop would have handled the situation differently. Strongly disagree. Glad the cop responded and got the ID. Shame Gates decided to act the way he did, he's old enough to know better.
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Post by cheapshotartist on Jul 23, 2009 22:30:48 GMT -4
To start a thread like this, with a title that it has speaks volumes. After reviewing the reports, I tend to believe the officer and the witnessess. So sad that a person who wants to run for Sheriff dumps on the very law enforcement establishment he pretends to care about without doing a little "investigating" before making accusations. I'm sure I would not want to work for a Sheriff who rants before he reads. If I could find this in a few minutes on the internet, why couldn't the original poster of this thread? www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html
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Post by linda712 on Jul 23, 2009 22:45:11 GMT -4
Wow! Thank you, Dee Lightful. Incredible............
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Post by pete1 on Jul 24, 2009 1:20:42 GMT -4
After Gates was arrested, handcuffed, and mugged, why was he set free without a court date? Illegal arrest, Political pressure, Cops are nice guys, Cops punked out, or WHAT?......Why did they let him go if it happened the way the Cops say?
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Post by kl on Jul 24, 2009 5:51:29 GMT -4
Food for thought........A 911 call in itself is not probable cause. Anybody can drop a dime.....The Burden of proof is on the cop, not on Gates.....Gates could have shut the door on the cop and went to bed. He committed no crime......A citizen is not required to produce ID unless there is enough probable cause to arrest the person in the first place. Exception= While operating a motorvehicle....Gates is 58, and most burglars are young junkies.....The MSP and other police departments were successfully sued for the racial profiling of blacks.....The disorderly charge was unlawful in the first place. How can you be disorderly in your house?.......I don't see this as racial, but as usual arrogance to the public. A good cop would have handled the situation differently. One, I was always taught, that if approached by a person, with a badge, and a gun, and is identified as a police officer, is to comply with his or her requests. The disorderly charge was brought out, when Gates stepped into his front yard, which is "public domain".
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Post by einebierbitte on Jul 24, 2009 8:27:42 GMT -4
After Gates was arrested, handcuffed, and mugged, why was he set free without a court date? Illegal arrest, Political pressure, Cops are nice guys, Cops punked out, or WHAT?......Why did they let him go if it happened the way the Cops say? Because people get arrested and set free all of the time with out it being anything about corruption, or illegal arrest. Perhaps he was arrested until he cooled off. But all know why he was let go regardless of the way it happened. POLITICAL PRESSURE....and RACE. We are coming into perilous times, if the President is going to make a mockery of the system when it involves some one he knows. Again, the President misspoke and made an ass out of himself.
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Post by bluecrabber on Jul 24, 2009 8:54:30 GMT -4
Regardless of the facts of this particular case, there are two burning issues in our current society:
1) Police in general have become incredible hostile towards common citizens. It would not matter what color Mr. Gates was, disrespecting a police officer in this country will get you cuffed and stuffed even if you are innocent of any crime.
2) All too many black citizens of this country just can't get the chip off the shoulder. Continuing to beat the drum that "whitey" is constantly out to get them is counterproductive.
Best regards, BC
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Post by shoreterp on Jul 24, 2009 12:21:09 GMT -4
Look, someone called the police saying two men appeared to be breaking into the house. The Police arrive and see two men matching the description in the house. The tell Mr. Gates that they are investigating a suspected burglary. And we all know what happened next...
Gates went into the whole "racist cop, black citizen" routine. All he had to do was produce ID showing that it was his house and all would have been done. But no, he had to go start screaming at the cop and doing the hate whitey thing and couldn't just let it be.
He even went so far as to follow the cop out of the house while screaming insults at him. I have no problem with them arresting him for disorderly. I'm just pissed they dropped the charges.
That's the difference with the way the different races react to police. If it were me at my house I would have said I lived there and thanked him for investigating the complaint. If he wanted ID I would have shown him ID. After that I would tell him to have a good night and that would be that. But "angry black men" like Gates have to act beligerant and insult the cops when ever they can, and that's what gets them arrested.
My old Criminal Justice Professor used to say the most common cause of being arrested was "aggravated popo" which stands for pissing off a police officer. Act polite, follow the directions, and there will be no problem 99% of the time. But don't act like a complete jerk and expect the cop to let you off with a warning.
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Post by pete1 on Jul 24, 2009 16:12:42 GMT -4
einebierbitte........As we speak there is a multi million $ lawsuit against the Balto. City Police Dept. for illegally arresting citizens, and not giving then a court date. Ten thousand citizens were arrested a year for eleven years.
Kl.......Since when is your front yard public domain?......King George had the badge & gun. I'm proud that George Washington and his men refused to submit.
bluecrabber.......You hit the nail on the head.
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Post by shoregurrl on Jul 24, 2009 17:22:46 GMT -4
Well said, bluecrabber.
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Post by falgar25 on Jul 24, 2009 18:28:53 GMT -4
Since when is your front yard public domain? When you are no longer in the privacy of your own home. Maybe if there was less of a crowd of neighbors and police there then it would have been less public. Think your front yard isn't public? Walk around naked in your living room and what happens? If you try the same thing in your front yard to you expect the outcome to be the same?
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Post by falgar25 on Jul 24, 2009 18:47:54 GMT -4
My old Criminal Justice Professor used to say the most common cause of being arrested was "aggravated popo" which stands for pissing off a police officer. We called it "contempt of cop"
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Post by hawkeye on Jul 25, 2009 19:56:44 GMT -4
To start a thread like this, with a title that it has speaks volumes. After reviewing the reports, I tend to believe the officer and the witnessess. So sad that a person who wants to run for Sheriff dumps on the very law enforcement establishment he pretends to care about without doing a little "investigating" before making accusations. I'm sure I would not want to work for a Sheriff who rants before he reads. If I could find this in a few minutes on the internet, why couldn't the original poster of this thread? Does that suprise you with the original poster.?..So much hate there.. Just like Obama.. Open mouth...insert foot..swallow..
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Post by pete1 on Jul 27, 2009 15:12:29 GMT -4
hawkeye..........The cops punked out when they dropped the disorderly charge against Mr. Gates. So why the disorderly charge in the first place? = Gates did not show the Cop the respect that he demanded. However, the burden of responsibility is with the man in authority, not the civilian. Had the Sergeant left when Gates proved he was the home owner there would be no national coverage of the event. Other than not showing respect to the cops, which is not illegal, Gates did not commit any crime. The Sergeant should have left as soon as the Burglary call was proved to be unfounded. Gates was in his own home not committing any crime. His home is his castle, not yours, not the Police, but his castle........ps. If the Cops stood up against all the problems that are taking the country down like they did on this case, things would change for the better.
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Post by cheapshotartist on Jul 27, 2009 22:05:00 GMT -4
Maybe I am missing something here. 1) Person sees someone trying to force themselves into a home and calls the police 2) Police arrive, find two people inside who refuse to identify themselves and start shouting racial slurs 3) Officer leaves the inside of the house and person yelling slurs follows and continues to yell and scream causing a crowd to gather 4) Officer(s) at that time, request again for person to please show identication, person continues to yell racial slurs causing a scene and officer, after telling him that he is causing a disturbance in the neighborhood, finally has to arrest him. 5) Officer did NOT punk out and drop charges, the officer arrests, the prosecutor reviews the action, sees that it was appropriate but decides not to carry through with prosecuting.Seems to me that if the same thing happened to any of us:1) We would be very happy that someone was thoughtful enough to call the police 2) If I had been the one who forced my way into my Condo and the police arrived I would be: . Happy they came ;D . And upset if they DIDN'T insist I show proof I lived their. 3) I would NOT have started yelling profanities to the point where a crowd gathered 4) Would NOT have continued to yell profanities as the officer left my house onto my porch That's my take how about everyone elses? (except yours Petey, we know what you think!.......just kidding don't get mad! )
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Post by pete1 on Jul 27, 2009 22:42:10 GMT -4
Dee Lightful........Here is what you are missing. 1. The call was unfounded. There was no burglary. The caller was a good citizen, but she was wrong about the burglary. 2. Gates committed no crime. 3. Sticks & stones about the name calling. 4. By not charging Gates after arresting him opens the door for the law suit case.......Other than asking Gates for identification which he produced, the cop could not legally go any further. What would you have done if you were the Sergeant, and Gates refused to talk to you, slammed the door in your face calling you a M. F.er, and went to bed. What would you do in this situation my friend?....Anxiously waiting for your answer.
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Post by moosie on Jul 27, 2009 23:33:36 GMT -4
once a person shows that s/he is the resident, should not the cop say thank you and good night?
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Post by dej on Jul 28, 2009 3:22:58 GMT -4
How was the call unfounded? You think there is nothing suspicious about two men apparently trying to force the door of a home? Yes, the caller was wrong about the possible burglary in progress. I guess that somehow the police were supposed to know that and not bother to respond??
"Gates committed no crime." Part of the Massachusetts's definition of disorderly conduct is violent OR tumultuous behavior "for no legitimate purpose other than to cause public annoyance or alarm." Gates' behavior seemed pretty tumultuous to me, and he certainly seemed to be striving for the annoyance aspect. While he was surely trying to annoy police, and succeeded admirably, I'm sure some of his "high drama" was also meant for the citizens observing as well. I'm not entirely certain Gates committed no crime, but I am certain he is connected well enough politically to guarantee he would never have been convicted of a crime.
"By not charging Gates after arresting him opens the door for the law suit case"...Gates WAS charged. It was the prosecutor's decision to drop charges, not a police decision. I'm sure Gate's lawyer calling the mayor and governor played absolutely no part that decision. ;D
The identification that Gates produced was his Harvard ID. While that confirms he is a member of the faculty, it does not confirm that he was the owner or occupant of the residence. Because Gates was uncooperative and refused to provide any proof of residence, and Crowley did not know for certain the whereabouts of the second individual, he went outside the residence and requested backup continue en route. At that point the burglary call was not unfounded, as he still had not seen proof of residence.
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Post by dej on Jul 28, 2009 3:45:07 GMT -4
While we are on the topic of police actions, I am a bit confused by the President's non-apology for calling their actions stupid. He indicated he could have "calibrated' his words better.
"calibration Act of comparing an instrument's measuring accuracy to a known standard. "
While I have done this procedure many times with electronic communications equipment, I had never heard of it being applied to verbal communications. Just curious what "known standard" the President would be comparing his words to??
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Post by falgar25 on Jul 28, 2009 6:40:02 GMT -4
Just curious what "known standard" the President would be comparing his words to?? Actual facts? (public opinion was my second guess)
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