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Post by jimbo on Oct 10, 2009 23:43:54 GMT -4
47% of the population according to a recent study pays no tax. If you do, feel fortunate in that you make enough money to do so. A progressive tax allows that those with the means to do so, carries the burden for those who do not. Unfair? Yeah, I suppose those in the upper income brackets feel so, but they got 8 years of a free pass recently. I doubt many of us here are in the $250K+ bracket and are affected.
It's unbelievable how the tactics of fear and misinformation by the conservatives are so effective with so many.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 10, 2009 23:55:54 GMT -4
47% of the population according to a recent study pays no tax. If you do, feel fortunate in that you make enough money to do so. A progressive tax allows that those with the means to do so, carries the burden for those who do not. Unfair? Yeah, I suppose those in the upper income brackets feel so, but they got 8 years of a free pass recently. I doubt many of us here are in the $250K+ bracket and are affected. It's unbelievable how the tactics of fear and misinformation by the conservatives are so effective with so many. Um...are your middle initials TH??? First of all, I pay taxes. I guess that makes me part of the 53% group. Am I proud to do so - well, I wouldn't say proud, but I believe I should pay my fair share. As far as your comment about a "progressive tax" goes, you apparently don't have a clue. A lot of small business owners fall into that tax bracket and would be unnecessarily burdened by such a tax. And for that matter, so would ever one else...kinda like a trickle-down scenario...the cost WILL be passed on to the consumer. PS - you should never assume what the income level of anyone is on a private forum...that has nothing to do with the issue!
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Post by falgar25 on Oct 11, 2009 0:32:41 GMT -4
47% of the population according to a recent study pays no tax. If you do, feel fortunate in that you make enough money to do so. A progressive tax allows that those with the means to do so, carries the burden for those who do not. Unfair? Yeah, I suppose those in the upper income brackets feel so, but they got 8 years of a free pass recently. I doubt many of us here are in the $250K+ bracket and are affected. It's unbelievable how the tactics of fear and misinformation by the conservatives are so effective with so many. Clueless! A flat tax takes the same proportion of my income as it takes from anyone else. If I make little then I pay little but if I make a lot then I pay a lot. We all drive on the same roads but those who make more pay more dollars for those roads. We don't all have the same access to Federal programs; those who make less have more access than those who pay more so in that case the higher earners are paying for something they don't receive. A progressive tax is what we currently have in our tax code. With a progressive tax, those who make less pay nohing, those who make a little more pay certain percentage, and those who make the higher wages get hit with a surcharge. Not only do they pay the additional dollars that a fixed tax rate would gather, they have to pay more on top of that to get to their "fair share." Some people are provided services at a 0% tax rate, others are provided fewer services at a 17% tax rate, and the "lucky" ones get access to even fewer services while being charged 31% as their "fair share." The "free ride" the upper earners have enjoyed the last eight years means the upper earners have not been charged an additional surcharge on top of the surcharge they are already paying! While nearly half the households pay no Federal income tax at all, 31% is now considered to be a "free ride." Things won't be "fair" until more than half pay no Federal income taxes at all and the upper 5% foot the bill with a "fair share" rate of 41%! The same roads that some pay $0 for the privilege of driving on cost others $41. Looking at it another way, things won't really be "fair" until those who get to keep $100 of every $100 they earn are certain that "the rich" only get to keep $59 of the $100 they earn. Of course it's easy for those in the middle to get on board with the "fair share" proposals. After all, only the rich people are going to pay the extra taxes, right? You want to talk about misinformation? Take a closer look at whose taxes will actually increase under the various revenue proposals being considered. That $250G number was easy to toss around during the campaign, and it still gets used every once in a while now, but the taxes and fees and penalties and obligations being discussed today are going to affect taxpayers who earn a lot less than that.
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Post by dej on Oct 11, 2009 0:42:05 GMT -4
Nice rehash of the DNC talking points. Anything original to offer? Nice rehash of the right wing agenda. Anything original to offer? Please note, quotes from both the left and right, as well as my own thoughts were presented up there. Maybe you missed that. My mistake, skimmed over your post too quickly. Also, after you've been around awhile, you'll find my agenda is independent, not right wing. Unlike some with partisan blinders, I see issues with both extreme wings.
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Post by Water Lady on Oct 11, 2009 1:39:40 GMT -4
47% of the population according to a recent study pays no tax. If you do, feel fortunate in that you make enough money to do so. A progressive tax allows that those with the means to do so, carries the burden for those who do not. Unfair? Yeah, I suppose those in the upper income brackets feel so, but they got 8 years of a free pass recently. I doubt many of us here are in the $250K+ bracket and are affected. It's unbelievable how the tactics of fear and misinformation by the conservatives are so effective with so many. Clueless! A flat tax takes the same proportion of my income as it takes from anyone else. If I make little then I pay little but if I make a lot then I pay a lot. We all drive on the same roads but those who make more pay more dollars for those roads. We don't all have the same access to Federal programs; those who make less have more access than those who pay more so in that case the higher earners are paying for something they don't receive. A progressive tax is what we currently have in our tax code. With a progressive tax, those who make less pay nohing, those who make a little more pay certain percentage, and those who make the higher wages get hit with a surcharge. Not only do they pay the additional dollars that a fixed tax rate would gather, they have to pay more on top of that to get to their "fair share." Some people are provided services at a 0% tax rate, others are provided fewer services at a 17% tax rate, and the "lucky" ones get access to even fewer services while being charged 31% as their "fair share." The "free ride" the upper earners have enjoyed the last eight years means the upper earners have not been charged an additional surcharge on top of the surcharge they are already paying! While nearly half the households pay no Federal income tax at all, 31% is now considered to be a "free ride." Things won't be "fair" until more than half pay no Federal income taxes at all and the upper 5% foot the bill with a "fair share" rate of 41%! The same roads that some pay $0 for the privilege of driving on cost others $41. Looking at it another way, things won't really be "fair" until those who get to keep $100 of every $100 they earn are certain that "the rich" only get to keep $59 of the $100 they earn. Of course it's easy for those in the middle to get on board with the "fair share" proposals. After all, only the rich people are going to pay the extra taxes, right? You want to talk about misinformation? Take a closer look at whose taxes will actually increase under the various revenue proposals being considered. That $250G number was easy to toss around during the campaign, and it still gets used every once in a while now, but the taxes and fees and penalties and obligations being discussed today are going to affect taxpayers who earn a lot less than that. OMG - just came back to shut down the computer for the night and found this...Go Falgar25, GO... That's what I have been trying to say all along!
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Post by RobMoore on Oct 11, 2009 11:27:08 GMT -4
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Post by jimbo on Oct 11, 2009 12:32:00 GMT -4
Not sure the purpose of the name calling especially since we said the same thing.
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Post by bchevy on Oct 11, 2009 13:05:54 GMT -4
Not sure the purpose of the name calling especially since we said the same thing. Name calling? Or status?
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Post by bchevy on Oct 11, 2009 13:09:56 GMT -4
I have to admit that when I saw this thread, I thought someone was playing a joke, or maybe The Onion had come out with a really good story... For real, I heard it on the Bob & Tom show when the news came out, I REALLY thought it was part of their Schtick..... OMFG I guess giving Gore a Nobel prize was just the beginning. Our President did nothing to earn this but deliver a bunch of EMPTY political speeches berating his own country. This is cheap, cheap, CHEAP. I thought the Nobel Committe had gotten to their lowest with Gore, guess not....
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Post by Frank on Oct 12, 2009 23:41:24 GMT -4
It's not the fact he received the award, it's the fact he got it before he had accomplished anything. If he wins the war on terrorism, negotiates peace in the middle east, or just does something positive for humanity, by all means give it to him. But to be recommended two weeks into his presidency is ridiculus.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 14, 2009 22:41:10 GMT -4
You want to talk about debt?...how about looking at the 8 years of war we waged in Iraq under the Bush Administration....Billions of debt because of it....How about looking at how the American people financed Enron and Haliburton?...We will be paying for that with our taxes for decades...And I havent even mentioned the fallout of war: treating the medical and psychiatric problems of the vets..Many will be disabled for the rest of their lives...Who will pay for their healthcare?..their familes?...the substance abuse...the PTSD..the mental illness..the domestic violence caused by war induced trauma???..The VA is a joke...I had veterans complain about the poor treatment or no treatment they got at the VA...Walter Reed Hospital is desperate to hire experienced managed care wh.ores to treat the vets at poverty level wages.....Every few months I get something in the mail from them begging me to work there with some bell or whistle as an incentive...Who are they trying to kid?......What insurance company lobbyist did they sleep with this month?...And what about corporate welfare healthcare bought and paid for by the tax payers?...Bush did nothing to relieve this...I got thousands of dollars worth of free mugs and lunches and lens...all at consumers expense....BCBS and Kaiser continues to lobby against healthcare reform to keep their dirty little fingers in the money pit and Republicans dont seem to have much to say about that...I wonder why, as it hurts them and their premiums as much as it does the next guy... Its interesting that Obama is in office 9 months and already people are calling his policies a failure...I think they need to look at the past eight years of failure before him.
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Post by hale80 on Oct 14, 2009 22:47:37 GMT -4
You want to talk about debt?...how about looking at the 8 years of war we waged in Iraq under the Bush Administration....Billions of debt because of it....How about looking at how the American people financed Enron and Haliburton?...We will be paying for that with our taxes for decades...And I havent even mentioned the fallout of war: treating the medical and psychiatric problems of the vets..Many will be disabled for the rest of their lives...Who will pay for their healthcare?..their familes?...the substance abuse...the PTSD..the mental illness..the domestic violence caused by war induced trauma???..The VA is a joke...I had veterans complain about the poor treatment or no treatment they got at the VA...Walter Reed Hospital is desperate to hire experienced managed care wh.ores to treat the vets at poverty level wages.....Every few months I get something in the mail from them begging me to work there with some bell or whistle as an incentive...Who are they trying to kid?....And what about corporate welfare healthcare bought and paid for by the tax payers?...Bush did nothing to relieve this...I got thousands of dollars worth of free mugs and lunches and lens...all at consumers expense....BCBS and Kaiser continues to lobby against healthcare reform to keep their dirty little fingers in the money pit and Republicans dont seem to have much to say about that...I wonder why, as it hurts them and their premiums as much as it does the next guy... Its interesting that Obama is in office 9 months and already people are calling his policies a failure...I think they need to look at the past eight years of failure before him. OMG - Are you kidding me? Are you serious? You talk in circles A LOT!
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Post by stephadele on Oct 14, 2009 22:48:45 GMT -4
Denial is not a river in Egypt
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Post by hale80 on Oct 14, 2009 22:50:08 GMT -4
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Post by stephadele on Oct 14, 2009 22:51:12 GMT -4
Old..but true
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Post by RobMoore on Oct 14, 2009 22:52:58 GMT -4
So should Obama have to do worse than Bush before anyone is given the right to criticize him?
OK, lets just wait a couple years before we get mad about anything. That will go over like another famous disaster.
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Post by hale80 on Oct 14, 2009 22:58:10 GMT -4
Just what we needed here - a resident "psycho therapist." Now we can all listen to you and heal ourselves...Good grief
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Post by dej on Oct 15, 2009 2:41:57 GMT -4
I'm curious about one part of your rant. How about looking at how the American people financed Enron and Haliburton?...We will be paying for that with our taxes for decades... How did the American people finance Enron? I know we financed the trials and convictions of Enron execs during the Bush admin for the creative accounting they almost got away with under the previous admin's watch. As for Haliburton, I think I understand the "financed by the American people" there. I assume (probably wrongly) that you aren't just upset with the no-bid contracts in Iraq under Bush, but your rage also extends to the no-bid contracts they got for work in Bosnia and Kosovo awarded to them by Clinton? I'm also going to assume (probably wrong again) that your rage against them is more about corporate greed than it is about their Bush ties. But I'm guessing that it's really only corporations with Republican ties that make your blood boil, since you never mention any corporations like Global Crossing. In case you missed it, they were also using Enron-style bookkeeping, (again under the Clinton watch) even using the same accounting company, Arthur Anderson. This guy named Terry McAuliffe (former DNC chair & major Clinton fundraiser) made a $100K investment, and turned it into a return of $18 million in under 18 months. He managed to pull his millions out just before Global Crassing became one of the largest bankruptcy cases up to that date. At least Cheney didn't drain the till when he left Haliburton.
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Post by joepop on Oct 15, 2009 3:46:56 GMT -4
He is a Joke of a president. panty waste
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 15, 2009 5:19:01 GMT -4
Just what we needed here - a resident "psycho therapist." Now we can all listen to you and heal ourselves...Good grief ROFL
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 5:47:50 GMT -4
BREAKING NEWS: This just in!!! Obama wins the Heisman Trophy after watching a college football game !!!
And...to touch on the subject of the 47% that don't pay taxes....I resent like HELL the fact that the non-taxpaying sector gets to vote on where I get to be taxed and what MY tax money goes for. Personally...I think that if you don't PAY taxes...you should NOT be allowed to vote on where that money goes.
Oh, and dej & RM & falgar and hale? AMEN.
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 5:55:37 GMT -4
BREAKING NEWS: This just in!!! Obama wins the Heisman Trophy after watching a college football game !!!And...to touch on the subject of the 47% that don't pay taxes....I resent like HELL the fact that the non-taxpaying sector gets to vote on where I get to be taxed and what MY tax money goes for. Personally...I think that if you don't PAY taxes...you should NOT be allowed to vote on where that money goes. Really??? So if i am disabled vet I should not have the right to vote? What about someone who served our country and is now out of work, not paying tax? What if I am a stay at home parent? I could go on, but I think you get the point. I got your point very clear too. Read the constituation
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 5:59:12 GMT -4
I have read The Constitution. I can also spell it. I can also have an intelligent discussion without trying to use hyper-emotional knee-jerk reaction getting statements for inflammatory purposes. You couldn't get my point if I sold it on ebay.
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 6:09:08 GMT -4
I have read The Constitution. I can also spell it. I can also have an intelligent discussion without trying to use hyper-emotional knee-jerk reaction getting statements for inflammatory purposes. You couldn't get my point if I sold it on ebay. So if you did actualy read it then? Your point?
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 6:10:35 GMT -4
Ah the difference in reading somthing and understanding somthing.
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