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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 6:20:45 GMT -4
If I use smaller words will that help? I am not surprised you would use the minority of non-tax paying citizens to try to illicit a response. That is an extremely common approach. I never said I wouldn't support programs to help those people. Quite the contrary. I would happily pay taxes to assist those that are truly disabled, retired from work, veterans, etc. They wouldn't have to tell me I HAD to. What I would cease paying for are the cyclical welfare recipients and their like to continue to suck the life from me. Do I feel I am responsible for them? Nope. Do I feel sorry for them? Nope. Do I really care what happens to them? Nope. Is there a REAL reason they don't work and make a contribution to society other than being a leech? Nope.
I am not talking about removing my money from valid programs offering valid services. However, that is not where the majority of tax money goes. I do not think I should have to subsidize programs that do not actually WORK or offer NEEDED help. It's my money and I am allowed to feel as I wish. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to spend it in the ways that I wish or on the programs I wish to spend it on. THAT gets voted away from me...if you don't resent it...whatever. I do.
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 6:23:01 GMT -4
Ah the difference in reading somthing and understanding somthing. Spelling and comprehension go hand in hand.
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 6:32:45 GMT -4
Personally...I think that if you don't PAY taxes...you should NOT be allowed to vote on where that money goes.
Oh, and dej & RM & falgar and hale? AMEN.[/quote]
Just to remind you of what YOU said!!
Keep back paddeling. B/C that is NOT what you said the first time around!
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 6:41:06 GMT -4
Ah the difference in reading somthing and understanding somthing. Spelling and comprehension go hand in hand. I don't think so. I am sory that I don't spell as well as you however English is not my first language, so please pardon me. BTW Mr Albert Einstein was a very poor speller and English was his first language. When engauged in a debate the looser offten changes the subject as a last dieing gasp for air.
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 6:43:10 GMT -4
LOL...nice try...but fail. You haven't a clue nor are you willing to attain one.
I refuse to debate this with you and your banalities...I will close with a quote I hold near and dear to my heart: "“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.” - Abraham Lincoln
Now...back to the originally scheduled topic.
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Post by nightpurse99 on Oct 15, 2009 6:43:17 GMT -4
Oh my more spelling errors.
I must consult my ESOL teacher, ya know the one that is tax funded bro!
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Post by einebierbitte on Oct 15, 2009 7:17:49 GMT -4
Spend much time at Walter Reed? I do.... So I think your words are bit grandstanding and not actually factual................
Yes, there are problems with the VA and Healthcare if you look at the overall big picture.... But that's because of the Joe Q Public who chooses when and how he/she wants to be a patriotic...
It's all easy to sit there in the comfort of your own home and point fingers and say this and that... (
Much easier to sit and complain, then actually get out there and do something about it!!
I do something about it every day. I make a difference to a Veteran every freaking single day that I am alive... What do you do?
Sit back and make accusations that you read about it, which in the media is always one sided...
But hey... That's your right!! That's your freedom!! You have a choice to do, and say and believe whatever you want...!!!
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Post by Frank on Oct 15, 2009 8:01:53 GMT -4
You want to talk about debt?...how about looking at the 8 years of war we waged in Iraq under the Bush Administration....Billions of debt because of it....How about looking at how the American people financed Enron and Haliburton?...We will be paying for that with our taxes for decades...And I havent even mentioned the fallout of war: treating the medical and psychiatric problems of the vets..Many will be disabled for the rest of their lives...Who will pay for their healthcare?..their familes?...the substance abuse...the PTSD..the mental illness..the domestic violence caused by war induced trauma???..The VA is a joke...I had veterans complain about the poor treatment or no treatment they got at the VA...Walter Reed Hospital is desperate to hire experienced managed care wh.ores to treat the vets at poverty level wages.....Every few months I get something in the mail from them begging me to work there with some bell or whistle as an incentive...Who are they trying to kid?......What insurance company lobbyist did they sleep with this month?...And what about corporate welfare healthcare bought and paid for by the tax payers?...Bush did nothing to relieve this...I got thousands of dollars worth of free mugs and lunches and lens...all at consumers expense....BCBS and Kaiser continues to lobby against healthcare reform to keep their dirty little fingers in the money pit and Republicans dont seem to have much to say about that...I wonder why, as it hurts them and their premiums as much as it does the next guy... Its interesting that Obama is in office 9 months and already people are calling his policies a failure...I think they need to look at the past eight years of failure before him. This is what qualifies Obama for the award? This simply says Bush doesn't deserve a Noble peace prize either!
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 15, 2009 9:13:52 GMT -4
Spend much time at Walter Reed? I do.... So I think your words are bit grandstanding and not actually factual................ Yes, there are problems with the VA and Healthcare if you look at the overall big picture.... But that's because of the Joe Q Public who chooses when and how he/she wants to be a patriotic... It's all easy to sit there in the comfort of your own home and point fingers and say this and that... ( Much easier to sit and complain, then actually get out there and do something about it!! I do something about it every day. I make a difference to a Veteran every freaking single day that I am alive... What do you do? Sit back and make accusations that you read about it, which in the media is always one sided... But hey... That's your right!! That's your freedom!! You have a choice to do, and say and believe whatever you want...!!! go Eine go. I doubt she gets mail from WR "begging' her to work for them.
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Post by moosie on Oct 15, 2009 9:16:15 GMT -4
Spelling and comprehension go hand in hand. I don't think so. I am sory that I don't spell as well as you however English is not my first language, so please pardon me. BTW Mr Albert Einstein was a very poor speller and English was his first language. When engauged in a debate the looser offten changes the subject as a last dieing gasp for air. just a general comment here. i think you and others on this forum have used that as a reason to jump all over the hispanics in the area. english is not my native tongue, either, but as some have said here, it is an obligation to learn the language or leave, as i recall. i guess it applies differently to different groups. i know it is not easy, even after many years in this country. of course, there are dictionaries and a spell checker.
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Post by moosie on Oct 15, 2009 9:19:31 GMT -4
there are plenty of things my taxes go to that i either don't believe in or don't use or just plain don't want to pay for. however, it seems true that if we don't all pay for something, then there will be nothing. for example, why should people pay for schools if they are not using the schools? or the highways? etc.? if not, what condition do you think those things would be in? it's kind of like insurance, i guess.
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Post by kl on Oct 15, 2009 9:25:42 GMT -4
there are plenty of things my taxes go to that i either don't believe in or don't use or just plain don't want to pay for. however, it seems true that if we don't all pay for something, then there will be nothing. for example, why should people pay for schools if they are not using the schools? or the highways? etc.? if not, what condition do you think those things would be in? it's kind of like insurance, i guess. Well ya know, if my taxes are going to improve highways, and I've been paying for over 30+ years, I sure don't see it getting done. Sign me, A Prisoner to I95. ;D
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Post by stephadele on Oct 15, 2009 10:58:15 GMT -4
Neither Obama nor Bush deserves the peace award...Its too premature for Obama and Bush's regime was full of violence and killing and destruction...There were so many other people, unknowns, who could have gotten the award..What about singer Joan Baez, and her tireless 50 career working and dedicating her life to peace worldwide?
As far as taxes are concerned, I dont mind paying for schools, librairies, police, fire departs, public parks, beaches, healthcare for the poor and homeless, higher education, senior centers/senior care..Those are all neccessary things to me...And if we dont pay them, we will have nothing...When I broke my leg many years ago, I had the fortune of living in Mass, a state with high taxes but you know what?...You get what you pay for...Mass has the best services of any state anywhere...I had no healthcare, no sick leave, so all my care was covered by going to a free health clinic...paid for by the county and state....My accident could have bankrupted me...Instead, it cost me 5 dollars per visit at a time when I was working 2 part time jobs and not making alot of money....There need to be free clinics in MD.... I dont want my taxes paying for corporate welfare for CEOs of BCBS, Kaiser, United Healthcare and Glaxo Smith Klein just so they can send their kids to Harvard and have 3rd vacation homes.....Which is why managed care needs to go....I dont have children nor am I a senior but I do believe in supporting and funding those local and national things well....I have a difficult time believing anyone else would want that, yet their voting records say another thing. I dont want my taxes supporting enterprises like Enron that support a war and making a killing off the suffering of people in a country they had no business being in to begin with..
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Post by stephadele on Oct 15, 2009 11:07:56 GMT -4
To the poster Eine who thinks Im grandstanding about Walter Reed, Id be happy to mail you the ads they keep sending me.....would that be the only way youd believe me? But they have figured out Im a licensed social worker..MSW, LCSW-C.....Im on their mailing list, so yes, I keeping getting their job announcements...With the war vets of Iraq coming home, they need more staff and Obama is probably giving them money for new hires... And knowing what I do about the field of mental healthcare, they are hard pressed to keep experienced staff who can train the newbies.... When I did work as a therapist for 20 years, I worked alot with those with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder..alot of veterans from the Vietnam and the Gulf Wars, their familes, and a few from Iraq and the rest were adult survivors of child sexual abuse and rape survivors .....Most of the vets I worked with came directly from from the VA so I got to hear plenty of stories, complaints about their experiences from it over the years.....Most said it was highly underfunded and understaffed....There were a few outstanding research MDs....The healthcare staff that was there often werent adequately trained in treating complex PTSD, which is why they were all coming to the mental health clinic I worked in for 6 years...There was also long waiting lists for emergency care when a vet was suicidal....Most of our staff were trained, licensed and credentialed to provide trauma therapy to the public. So Im not sitting here spouting off about something I dont know about ...I do know quite a bit about it...it was my professional life for 20 years... I already went and did something about it .. What about you?
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Post by moosie on Oct 15, 2009 11:46:26 GMT -4
Neither Obama nor Bush deserves the peace award...Its too premature for Obama and Bush's regime was full of violence and killing and destruction...There were so many other people, unknowns, who could have gotten the award..What about singer Joan Baez, and her tireless 50 career working and dedicating her life to peace worldwide? As far as taxes are concerned, I dont mind paying for schools, librairies, police, fire departs, public parks, beaches, healthcare for the poor and homeless, higher education, senior centers/senior care..Those are all neccessary things to me...And if we dont pay them, we will have nothing...When I broke my leg many years ago, I had the fortune of living in Mass, a state with high taxes but you know what?...You get what you pay for...Mass has the best services of any state anywhere...I had no healthcare, no sick leave, so all my care was covered by going to a free health clinic...paid for by the county and state....My accident could have bankrupted me...Instead, it cost me 5 dollars per visit at a time when I was working 2 part time jobs and not making alot of money....There need to be free clinics in MD.... I dont want my taxes paying for corporate welfare for CEOs of BCBS, Kaiser, United Healthcare and Glaxo Smith Klein just so they can send their kids to Harvard and have 3rd vacation homes.....Which is why managed care needs to go....I dont have children nor am I a senior but I do believe in supporting and funding those local and national things well....I have a difficult time believing anyone else would want that, yet their voting records say another thing. I dont want my taxes supporting enterprises like Enron that support a war and making a killing off the suffering of people in a country they had no business being in to begin with.. precisely. oh, did you watch pbs last night!?
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Post by einebierbitte on Oct 15, 2009 12:11:00 GMT -4
To the poster Eine who thinks Im grandstanding about Walter Reed, Id be happy to mail you the ads they keep sending me.....would that be the only way youd believe me? But they have figured out Im a licensed social worker..MSW, LCSW-C.....Im on their mailing list, so yes, I keeping getting their job announcements...With the war vets of Iraq coming home, they need more staff and Obama is probably giving them money for new hires... And knowing what I do about the field of mental healthcare, they are hard pressed to keep experienced staff who can train the newbies.... When I did work as a therapist for 20 years, I worked alot with those with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder..alot of veterans from the Vietnam and the Gulf Wars, their familes, and a few from Iraq and the rest were adult survivors of child sexual abuse and rape survivors .....Most of the vets I worked with came directly from from the VA so I got to hear plenty of stories, complaints about their experiences from it over the years.....Most said it was highly underfunded and understaffed....There were a few outstanding research MDs....The healthcare staff that was there often werent adequately trained in treating complex PTSD, which is why they were all coming to the mental health clinic I worked in for 6 years...There was also long waiting lists for emergency care when a vet was suicidal....Most of our staff were trained, licensed and credentialed to provide trauma therapy to the public. So Im not sitting here spouting off about something I dont know about ...I do know quite a bit about it...it was my professional life for 20 years... I already went and did something about it .. What about you? The part about your grandstanding view...has nothing to do with what you have or have not done in the past 20 years...but more or less horned in on the "WRAMC is desparate to hire experienced managed care wh.ores to treat the vets at poverty leveal wages..." So you must be a managed care wh.ore? Although Government rates are no where near the Private Practice Rapists... I make good money, definately not Poverty Level ... and most managed care professionals I know at Walter Reed make the same or more than I do...... Sorry I ddn't make myself clearer, and rambled somewhat... but when Joe Q. Public starts in on Vets and Health care and blaming this or that, or lauck there of, or too much blah, blah, blah, kinda sets me off.... I tend to be very biased/closed minded when it comes to Veterans... must be due to my background.... As far as me making a difference... Every day I am above the ground is a day I have made a difference or done something worthwhile or to be proud about.....
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 15, 2009 12:55:43 GMT -4
Am I missing something on the wh.ore reference? I admire anyone that is willing to work at Walter Reed no matter what their pay scale is. If I were to be a therapist there, I could lay my head down at night knowing that I was doing a good thing.
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Post by moosie on Oct 15, 2009 13:56:24 GMT -4
how did this get to be a topic about veterans anyway?
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Post by speedergurl68 on Oct 15, 2009 14:04:29 GMT -4
LOL Blame me I made a joke about the actual topic of discussion (in truth I didn't even make the joke...I just copied and pasted it from a funny email my mom sent me yesterday) and then commented on an earlier post...some ninny threw in a comment about vets trying to make some obscure and inane point...someone else saw the comment and threw in their two cents...someone else ran with it...you know how these things roll To be fair...I DID try to redirect Ain't it fun? ;D
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Post by stephadele on Oct 15, 2009 17:46:26 GMT -4
Eine...I dont appreciate being referred to as Joe Public when I devoted 20 years of my life helping vets as a therapist, often making home visits FREE of CHARGE....I do think you should be careful who you call that when you dont know their background.....I saw and heard things you didnt.....You must have misread my post because I certainly didnt cut down or blame any vet, just the sick system that supposed to be helping them....Where was that coming from?.....If the VA is such a great place to receive mental health therapy, why did I get so many referrals of vets leaving it in droves? Why were so many coming to me in crisis after being told to wait in line by the VA?...Maybe the truth hurts hearing that....Also.....I dont work as a managed care wh.ore any longer... After 21 years of service, Ive retired..
Safe...Sounds like youve never worked in mental healthcare so you dont know how bad it is or how you would be treated. You might lay your head down at night but you probably wont sleep well. The morgage needs to be paid and so do the utilities, youve been sick for a week but dont dare take time off because you have no paid sick leave or paid vacation leave and you have no idea how many clients will show up tomorrow and how many wont.....so you never know what your pay will be....try living with that year after year with no end in sight.... Knowing you are doing a good thing doesnt go far if it doesnt pay your bills or forces you to go to work sick or lose pay.. So until youve walked in my shoes in it from 1987 to 2008, try a little tolerance and understanding.
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Post by safetildecember on Oct 15, 2009 18:25:23 GMT -4
Eine...I dont appreciate being referred to as Joe Public when I devoted 20 years of my life helping vets as a therapist, often making home visits FREE of CHARGE....I do think you should be careful who you call that when you dont know their background.....I saw and heard things you didnt.....You must have misread my post because I certainly didnt cut down or blame any vet, just the sick system that supposed to be helping them....Where was that coming from?.....If the VA is such a great place to receive mental health therapy, why did I get so many referrals of vets leaving it in droves? Why were so many coming to me in crisis after being told to wait in line by the VA?...Maybe the truth hurts hearing that....Also.....I dont work as a managed care wh.ore any longer... After 21 years of service, Ive retired.. Safe...Sounds like youve never worked in mental healthcare so you dont know how bad it is or how you would be treated. You might lay your head down at night but you probably wont sleep well. The morgage needs to be paid and so do the utilities, youve been sick for a week but dont dare take time off because you have no paid sick leave or paid vacation leave and you have no idea how many clients will show up tomorrow and how many wont.....so you never know what your pay will be....try living with that year after year with no end in sight.... Knowing you are doing a good thing doesnt go far if it doesnt pay your bills or forces you to go to work sick or lose pay.. So until youve walked in my shoes in it from 1987 to 2008, try a little tolerance and understanding. I have worked in the mental health field with clients in various settings with clients from 3 yrs. old up to 103 yrs with the majority being 20-50yrs old. You are correct when you said I did not sleep well, I certainly did not and the reasons why I was not sleeping are the reasons I am no longer working in the field. If I had clients that were not showing up as you say, I would consider that a failure on my part and the part of the patient. If you started in 1987, all I will say is I have years ahead of you. You made it out to seem like you made good money and were not willing to take a pay cut and be a Walter Reed wh.ore and now you are saying something different.
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Post by stephadele on Oct 15, 2009 19:27:07 GMT -4
Safe...The reasons I didnt have clients show up were varied...Some late cancelled because of immediate child care needs, others cancelled because of their work schedules, sickness or they "forgot" about the appointment.........Some cancelled because of me....I never made more than 40K working full time about 50 hours a week......That was my top wage with full benefits for 3 years.....Much of the time it was lower...about 30K full time...Some may consider that alot of money but I looked once to see who made comparable pay as me and it was a gabage collector...I didnt find any professional with a masters degree required making as less as I did.....Physical therapists, dieticians, nurses, teachers all made more than me....So I think Im justified in saying the fee for service pay was low pay. I received the Walter Reed ads after I already left the field...The pay they advertised was between 40 and 50k.....Thats still shockingly low for someone with two masters degrees and 20 years experience, when compared to other masters level healthcare professions who would command 50-75 k as an entry level professional just out of college.....At my last job, I never received a raise the entire time I worked there for 6 years....Thats common in the field..
Im sorry you werent sleeping well when working...I can relate, having been that way for years working in the field...I was always overbooking clients and running the hamster wheel to try make ends meet.....I lived very frugally...duplex...no dishwasher, no garage, computer was 12 years old.....Its not a good situation.....Im relieved and thankful to be out of there...I dont know if you worked with PTSD clients all day but I can tell you a steady diet of that plus the low pay isnt worth it to me...Its extremely stressful....Im glad you can see somewhat where Im coming from with your own experience working....
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Post by einebierbitte on Oct 15, 2009 22:20:43 GMT -4
You know what dear... go back and read my post. I believe I said that the VA and the healthcare system have problems, I never once said the VA was a great place to get care since the VA and the military health care system is funded by the government, and we all know the vicious circle of government funding..,..
If you lump your self in with Joe Q, Public and feel offended, oh well, you put yourself there, I did not.
I have not assumed anything about you. But you should be careful as well assuming that you are the only one that has seen and heard things...these last 20 years. And for the record you know nothing about me or what I do, or what I know as well, so you should afford me the same courtesy that you are requesting of me...
I never accused you of cutting down vets either.
Sorry for the hijack!
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Post by stephadele on Oct 16, 2009 9:18:27 GMT -4
Sorry for misinterpreting your post, eine...but thats what it looked like you said to me....I did reread it...twice.. eine:.."...but when Joe Q Public starts on vets and healthcare and blaming this or that...."
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Post by lynn on Oct 25, 2009 16:18:31 GMT -4
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